New aw11 owner

[djdna2000]

Hi all

I've just bought myself a mk1, a red 1989. Cost me 440 quid off ebay, not a bad deal I reckon! Turns out it was just round the corner from me here in Manchester so I went to take a look before buying and as far as I can tell there isn't too much wrong with it. Front wings have been replaced due to rust, there is a bit of bubbling on the rear arches but nothing major - and as far as I can see nothing wrong with the sills.

I've been thinking about a track car for a while, but I'm trying to save cash at the mo. I toasted the turbo on my ST205 at the N?rburgring last month (going to finally swap that off tomorrow!) and as the insurance is up for renewal I thought I'd take the plunge and sell it after 4 years. It's just too expensive to track such a big heavy car regularly.

I also wanted a car I could chop up and do some good ghetto mods, and not be too out of pocket if I break it! The AW11 seems ideal, stock bits off other cars make it go and stop faster for cheap :)

I'm going to slap a turbo on there, not quite as advanced as a mk1.5 swap but everyone has to start somewhere - when I first got my ST205 I had never even changed the oil before!

I'd welcome advice/opinions, my thoughts so far are:

T3 off a RB25DET
rally2 manifold (though I emailed him and no response yet, is he still doing them?)
megasquirt (plus the EDIS thingy?)
ST205/ST185CS chargecooler
ST205 BOV
sc gearbox with lsd
dsm injectors, supra pump
etc

plus roll cage, stripped interior, bigger wheels/brakes etc. Need to find a way to do this all cheap though :D bit of a long first post, I think I'd better shut up :roll:

[podge]

if your going to do this to a standard 4a ge itl probably last you well into the first corner :( sorry but apparently the 4a ge wont handle what you want from it without spending lots of cash you could go the 4a gze way which alot of people have done succesfully or with the price of tubby clips on the way down you could just go the 1.5 route :D

[djdna2000]

I dunno, there seem to be a few people on the US board who have done it? It's the later, stronger crank and rods in the 89 (same as SC?) and the CR isn't that bad. Might have to whack a better headgasket on there, but it's worth a try.

I'm not going to extract the full potential of that turbo straightaway, but no point in buying it twice - if I do blow it up I can always rebuild with some SC pistons and turn the boost up then :)

If I have the ST205 chargecooler, a bigger engine rad and an oil cooler in there, keep everything cool it will hopefully be OK.

[harryh]

I've actually got jeremys (rally2) own manifold and T3 turbo set up from his rally mr2 in my garage.

Bought it a year or so ago, when he reverted his car to N/a.

Last time I spoke to him he was still making manifolds, but that was 6 months ago.

Produced about 300hp on his car - sc internals - na intake.

If you can't get through to him I'll have a dig through, I've got his phone number somewhere.

His web sites a pretty decent guide to install, and he'll help-by-wire as much as he can, nice guy.

www.4agte.com

Harry

[Paul Woods]

hi dan,welcome to the asylum.....electro therapy starts at noon but you can have as much strawberry jelly as you like :D

I think what podge is trying to say with a 4a-gte swap is that the already high compression of the 4a-ge and the added boost leads to detonation....i think the crank/rods etc are possibly up to the job (in the short term anyway) but controlling detonation on that set up will be the biggest hurdle,det is a piston holer.

The argument for and against a 4a-gte is that while it seems an easy route,you end up spending the same money to achieve it as a 3s-gte swap costs.....but they are 245bhp (rev3) straight out of the box,and reliably so...300bhp is easily attainable with a boost increase/few other mods.

The plus for building a 4a-gte is its weight,but i wouldnt build a 4a-gte unless i was starting with a SC motor,its got the correct CR and inbuilt strength for running good boost.

My plan one day was the following....

Late spec SC engine/loom/ecu (map sensored y'see!)
Carl crawford turbo manifold
T3 or other
4a-ge Na inlet manifold
no tvis rail

I reckon the above is an excellent platform for some serious power to weight performance,even toyed with the idea of bolting the 20v head onto the 4a-gze block,not sure how feasible that is but would be stonking!

I think your idea will work if you can control detonation,but its longevity will be dubious and it will cost a pretty penny to achieve....you can pick up a turbo clip for as little as ?500,thats got 95% of what you need.

Enough from me,welcome to the forum bud,you will find all the help in the world right here .

[djdna2000]

If I could find a 3rd generation engine and gearbox/lsd for ?500 then I'd probably do it, but where to get one for that price? Normally the engine alone would fetch that. I paid ?400 for a gearbox for the GT4, although I suppose that has the transfer case etc also.

[Paul Woods]

well i know nik paid ?600 for his rev 3 rear clip so they are out there....i paid ?250 for my rev 2...all depends what breakers yard you find them in,expect to pay around ?1000 at japanese breakers....just a matter of hunting down the right car in the right yard.

[MegatronUK]

Just to chime in that I paid 400 quid for my Rev1 bits, including the lsd box... and that was only a couple of months ago.

[adamh]

i paid 650 failry complete, rev 1 3sgte 70k from a write off. hunted about for sc engines, they cost to much!. how do..

[harryh]

to put the pricing into perspective, I paid about ?600 once exchange rates, shipping, and import taxes were levid on a pretty sorted turbo set up for a 4agze/4age

and you'd still need the majority of an sc running gear/electrics to complete, 4agze's are a lot harder and typically more expensive than 3sgte's to find.

Wasn't the HKS 4age turbo kit limited to 4-6lbs boost as it was all the standard engine could take?

HH

[Paul Woods]

yeah i think so too harry,im pretty sure you cant run more than 6 psi of boost on a stock 4a-ge with its CR....i know i cant run more than 5 or 6psi on my V6 with its CR....ideally you want an 8.5:1 CR for boost around 12-15psi without having detonation problems.

[djdna2000]

evidently I have some thinking/searching to do! I suppose if I could find a 3S then at least I wouldn't have to think about an EMS, could just use the stock computer. Does the rev 1 tubby have the gen 2 3S or the gen 1 as found in the ST165 (topfeed injectors, different flywheel pattern etc)?

[Driftin_AW]

the gen 1 3sgte was only in ST165's, all sw20's are gen 2 onwards

[Driftin_AW]

and fwiw I was just about finished my 4agte in the aw11 when I decided to go the 3sgte route, I was using a stock SC motor. My main reasons for changing my mind were that it could produce more power reliably, I wouldn't need to upgrade any parts like injectors, computer etc unless I wanted over 300hp ish, it's a hell of a lot cooler having a 3sgte in the back of an aw11, and I already have a much better working knowledge and supply of parts for the 3sgte, having done a lot of work and modifications on my st185.

Paul, a mate of mine has a 7AGTE, using a 7AFE (1.8L)block, 20v head, that he's been building up for his aw11. The 20v head isn't that much work to fit to a 16v 4age. There was also some guy down south with a turbo'ed 4agze with a 20v head in his aw11 and was running 12 sec 1/4 miles.

[Paul Woods]

that sounds amazing malcolm,ive always wanted to try that...i think a 20v 1.8 turbo with 40 kgs less than a 3s-gte would be thunderous! but as you say it comes down to reliable power.....anyone can build a 4a-gte but how long will one last producing the same power as a stock 3s? not long im betting! ok the 3s is heavier,its prone to the odd problem,but in general the amount of reliable power you can squeeze from a 3s is amazing.

I was running 280bhp with mine and traction was starting to become a serious issue,id say 300bhp is plenty in a mk1.....damn i miss my 1.5!

[Driftin_AW]

yeah I can't wait to see the 7agte mr2 run. Even more interesting will be a comparison between that and my 1.5 :D His is a built motor though, forged pistons etc, and running an aftermarket ecu

[djdna2000]

I added up how much my GTE was going to cost and was surprised. So, you guys may have gone some way toward convincing me to go mk 1.5. I'll start looking out for stuff. When you talk about clips do you mean engine and gearbox or a whole rear cut? Anyone got any good places to look? There's a specialist jap parts breakers next door to my place but they are always so expensive - prob best just trawling round 'normal' breakers who don't know what they've got.

[Paul Woods]

exactly right dan,jap breakers think they have a bar of gold...hunt about the regular yards,keep an eye on ebay...but if you take any advice dont just buy an engine and gearbox from someone,even if they say its complete and everything is there.....it never is! and its all the little bits that make it expensive.

Ideally you want a complete rear clip off a crash damaged car,that way you know its engine was right before it had the crash,you will get almost everything you need that way,and a couple of mk2 rear suspension struts and an mk2 rear anti roll bar too.If you find a complete clip and they offer to take it all out for you ask if you can take it out yourself,these places hack through everything without caring,out comes the cutting torch and you have lost engine mounts,axles the lot....best way is to get a complete clip and strip it yourself.

[Driftin_AW]

even better if you can find a complete, drivable sw20 :D Then you can make money back from the sale of unneeded parts. This does however also give you the opportunity to blow the turbo on the donor car before you give it to the aw11 :(

[MegatronUK]

Just seen a couple of normally aspirated-based 4AGTE's crop up on the US board:

http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=107962

http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=108474

both made approx 145bhp

I'm not knocking (geddit?) what they've accomplished... but I've seen 4AGE's just running throttle bodies or sidedraughts and cams that make a lot more than that (mostly fitted to kit cars.. RAW Engineering do a lot of 'em). It just seems to me a lot of work for not a lot of reward.

[Driftin_AW]

fwiw there's a dude here in NZ who has spent years turbo'ing bluetop (na) 4age's, first on stock ECU, but now he uses a link ecu (cheap NZ made one), gets pretty decent power out of them too, without any internal work, around 220hp @ wheels in his ae86 gets him low 13 sec 1/4 miles..

[Paul Woods]

thats unbelieveable manlcolm....on stock internals ie standard CR?

[Driftin_AW]

yeah, stock everything, although I wouldn't be suprised if he's had to swap a headgasket or two.
He used to run on the stock ecu with a one way valve on the map sensor so it wouldn't read boost, 0 degrees base timing, and he relied on the knock sensor to retard timing if it detonated. that was a pretty dodgy set up, but it's come a long way since then, but he still uses stock internals, possibly upgraded cams though

[Rowdan]

Paul, a mate of mine has a 7AGTE, using a 7AFE (1.8L)block, 20v head, that he's been building up for his aw11. The 20v head isn't that much work to fit to a 16v 4age. There was also some guy down south with a turbo'ed 4agze with a 20v head in his aw11 and was running 12 sec 1/4 miles.

This must be an antipodean thing found this site:

Ray Hall Turbocharging (http://www.turbofast.com.au/mr2.html)