View Full Version : I am new here! Hi! :o)
Hello everybody,
well some of you will know me from IMOC. I have decided to do the mk1.5 conversion... well, more precisely, pay Paul to do it for me.
I have been thrashing around for months now with ideas about making the mk1 faster, looked into tuning the 4age engine (as most of you probably did!).
I now know that Paul does a full conversion for ?1500!! so I have finite costs, which is the reason I have not taken the plunge before.
My question is really simple... do I get a rev1,2 or 3 "clip" ? If so, how much should I be looking at paying?
Thanks all!
Andy
superchargedsam
05-01-2006, 17:19
all depends what you can get at the time and your budget, obviously the rev 3 is the best option as a base as has more power to start with but the rev 1 and 2 are both still very tunable ! The downside of the rev 3 is the cost as most will vouch for !
superchargedsam
05-01-2006, 17:21
Oh forgot to say hi by the way ! watched the thread you had going with interest and wondered where it would end ! Believe me its the best way to go with the 1.5, I have an SC and currently have a special engine on the drawing board for that but bang for buck its still not gonna touch the 1.5 and may not even make as much power in the end as the 1.5 will ! you wont go far wrong with Paul thats for sure just make sure you book him up nice and early as he is a busy fella !
MegatronUK
05-01-2006, 17:27
The Rev3 has more power and potential as standard (245ps versus 221ps of the Rev1&2 [both rated the same]), but you'll pay for it. Rev3's are very sought after by mk2 owners.
Personally I'd go for a bumped or accident damaged rev1 or rev2 that you can hear running, or, even better, actually still drive (then you know the gearbox is still good... unlike mine...).
welcome andy..
:wave:
shame youre not tackling the swap yourself but i hear your swap fee will pay for a new school up north..so very well done..
have fun here and just cos youre not doing the swap yourself doesnt mean you cant contribute technically..
enjoy TB
Paul Woods
05-01-2006, 17:54
hi there andy,good to see you on twobrutal mate.Glad you have decided to take the plunge,the 1.5 conversion really is the only way to go about it to be honest....as we talked about on imoc you could spend many thousands tuning the 4a and all you would end up with is an unstable unit on its limit,going 3s ensures reliability as they are designed to kick out 225bhp stock (245 rev3).
Personally id go rev1/2 due to their availability,but if you can find a rev3 going cheap then grab it! As john says hearing it run is the best way.
The best thing you can do now is sit for a good few hours and read through the entire forum,they are all good threads that will help you.
Welcome aboard andy,another nutter joins the fold. :D
Wecome Andy, like Sam I was following the thread on "that lesser forum" and thought it wouldn't be long before we saw you over here in the nuthouse....
welcome andy all the best and good to see another 1.5 going ahead
mehehe,
tbh I have always appreciated the 3s engine, and have had a couple of Mk2 tubbies. I just didn't like their handling one bit. (no offense anyone!! 8-[ )
I used to own (6 years ago!!) a 4agte, basically a 4agze engine, with a custom manifold and a t2 t25 hybrid turbo, chargecooler and GEMS ecu. Unfortunately it kept blowing up. I bought it as an ongoing project and wasted loads on it. At it's peak it was making 331bhp at 25psi! Turbo Dynamics in Christchurch made the turbo.
Well, onto more sensible matters eh?? Although I am not doing the swap myself, it's only because a) no garage b) I am MORE than happy to allow an expert to get it right first time. I have tuned over a dozen cars in my life and if I have learnt anything its to learn from other peoples mistakes!!! I can't compete with ?1500 fitting!! May as well just do 75 hours overtime over the next 2 months whilst sourcing my clip and I am there!! :mrgreen:
mehehe,
tbh I have always appreciated the 3s engine, and have had a couple of Mk2 tubbies. I just didn't like their handling one bit. (no offense anyone!! 8-[ )
You won't offend anyone on here, maybe Goldy but he don't count. :smile: :smile: :smile:
Paul Woods
06-01-2006, 08:19
jesus h christ....330bhp @25psi from a 4a-gte! thats incredible mate....mind you im not surpirsed it kept blowing up,poor thing would have been begging for mercy!
Hindsight is wonderful...
it was running the standard sensor so could not measure positive boost, was therefore just fuelling at MAX. Like I said, I have learnt to leave it to the experts.
Running lower pressure (around 18 I think, 280 odd bhp) saw a 12.05 1/4 mile!! I raced my mate on his RGV250, off the line I held him, and at 90mph tucked it into 4th and left him for dead... was totally hilarious!
It had the turbo oil feed returning to the sump via a drilled hole and plumbing.. unfortunately the hole was too low, and the oil would be above the level of the hole so the backpressure caused blow-by on the seals and it smoked like a nutter.. I wasted a turbo rebuild on it until I realised all I had to do was drop some oil out of it... which is not ideal. Ultimately it ran well when it ran, but it just kept on creating lots of crank pressure and blowing engines up.
Paul Woods
06-01-2006, 09:13
ah i see! yes if the oil return isnt above the oil level in the sump it means the oil backfeeds back up into the turbo and pressurizes through the seals. As you say hindsight and all that!
I would have loved a drive in that thing,sounds absolutely mental while it lasted.
It had NO lag whatsoever, the manifold came UP rather than down and the turbo sat almost above sparkplug no.4 and the chargecooler was where the battery would be and then straight into the intake. It was quite funny to drive, if you were doing tickover in 1st gear, it would accellerate to the redline *almost* as fast as you could press the throttle...
just to make it interesting at the lights it had a ceremetallic (sp?) clutch!! it was pretty much 0-60 in sub-5 or stall! LOL!
It broke its front lower engine mount on a number of occassions and the engine was "hanging" on the other mounts, that was scary...
superchargedsam
06-01-2006, 10:02
Luthor was it the HKS manifold that puts the turbo above the head rather than under it becuase thats what I have on my twin charge project but its got a T3 from a skyline sat on it at the moment ! Am interested to see the power figures as that gives me hope now for the project. Did you buy or sell the car on MR2DC as I once saw a MK1 tubby on there and phoned up about it once.
The guy on the RGV cant have been pushing it into the top power band as I have an RGV250M (bought it brand new and still got al though in a million bits at the mo) with mild mods and even with my then 14 stone frame on it kept an escort cossie at bay until at least 110mph then it wasted me !
What crank and shafts were running to take the power as read about a 4AGTE taking a ferrari out once and was running 360bhp on a GZE crank and rods but snapped the crank clean in half !
I don't know what manifold it was, but it was 6 years ago now, it came kinda mostly completed as a project, and I failed miserably to complete it properly :o(
Speak to Craig at Turbo dynamics, they made the t2/t25 hybrid (based on a Renault 5 turbo as I remember) and it was awesome...
The car was left out the back of my ex-girlfriends house to rot after we split up/i ran out of money/had nowhere to put it #-o. I expect she disposed of it. :-({|=
Hmm, escort cossie... in standard trim is around 5.4 secs to 60? 4agte totally destroys that... standard RVG250 does 12.85 1/4 mile at 99mph, even on lower boost the 4agte did 12.05...
Was running standard GZE engine on the last build, but was not boosted to limit, only 18ish psi, so *only* 280bhp...
The mapping was all wrong, had wrong pressure sensors, needed rolling road tuning, was a mess. Would not attempt again, just feels better to start with something that is supposed to be 220bhp turbo. Rev2 clip for me I think. Will probably stick in light flywheel and new standard clutch, probably oil pump and water pump, maybe a steel head-gasket and engine gasket kit. Anymore things people tend to do whilst it's out???
superchargedsam
06-01-2006, 10:44
12.05 1/4 is good and lowest I got on my RGV was 11.86@107 ! cant believe you left without taking it with you as it sounds quite an awsome bit of kit, does sound like the HKS manifold as the one I have puts the turbo in same position you mentioned ! with those sort of figures I am tempted to cut the supercharger out of the equation and run it as is but not sure now ! hmmm !
As to what to do with the engine while out I am going for a complete strip and check and rebuild only becasue I detest working on engines in cramped bays at best of time and the bay is gonna be well cramped with the 3SGTE in there ! Also while the engine is I rekon if you change all the things you say (and obviously cambelt as well) then you will have a very tough long lasting engine for future mods. Another reason for a full strip down is I am doing a port and flow job on the head (mild work) and am putting on vernier pullies etc and its a rev 3 head on rev 2 bottom end (alot of the info I have points to this being a good setup as early bottom ends are very strong and later ones have differing strengths) so might as well do the whole lot while I am there.
to be truthful I didn't really know what I had until now
Welcome to TB mate :welcome: .... its pretty suprising you actually managed to get the mk1 turbo runing without proper fueling and a positive map sensor :shock: Bet it was fun whilst it lasted though!! :twisted:
superchargedsam
06-01-2006, 11:54
wish you knew where it was now fella as be a superb project again with the knowledge off here.
djdna2000
06-01-2006, 15:40
wish you knew where it was now fella as be a superb project again with the knowledge off here.
best ask the ex...
good god no! I am coming out in hives now!!
eek! Would rather smear jam on my eyeballs and stick my head on a wasps nest.
Please don't make me!! :puke:
welcome :smile: definately better to have a baseline of 220, i wouldnt have fancied your bleeding knuckles from all that previous tinkering. i see you have learnt though!, very nice to have someone do it competently for you. good luck.
it's an extremely serious piece of work, and without a garage, I am not prepared to risk screwing it up both from a safety point of view and financial. Paul can do it easy, knows the tricks etc etc and for ?1500, by the time I have rented the garage and lifting equipment, charged my time at ?20 an hour, it is no where near economic.
If it takes him 4 weeks, it is still cheaper for me to have my car off the road with him for 4 weeks and rent a little fiesta or something!!
I am more of a :drive: these days
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