View Full Version : Pointed in this direction by MegatronUK

03-07-2005, 13:59
I sold an E30 BMW 320i track car and bought a 1987 T-bar as a replacement after being told there were several conversions available to give more power.

I looked at exhaust, induction and cams, but decided I wanted more power than that so have decided upon the 3S-GTE swap.

I've read some of the write-ups of the conversion, but is there a definitive list anywhere of all parts that I will need to do the swap, eg. ancillaries, driveshafts, etc.

Also, apart from power, is there any advantage to buying a rev 2 or 3 engine as opposed to a rev 1 ?


03-07-2005, 14:40
I see you found us now :)

I can only speak for myself, but with the rev1/2 engines (both are rated at the same 220bhp, btw) making nearly the same power, and the rev3 engine costing so much more, unless you can get the rev3 (240bhp) for peanuts, I'd just go for a rev1 or 2. For the extra you'll spend to get the rev3 engine you could just get yourself a downpipe and boost controller (an easy 20-30bhp), or even spend it on totally upgrading all the brakes and suspension (konis all round and GT4 calipers and discs, for example - a common upgrade for us).

03-07-2005, 14:44
I'm not planning on needing any more power than the standard engines produce.

I found your page with prices paid for all the various parts and at under ?2k is well within my budget.

I've just got to source an engine and box now so that the fun can begin. The one on imocuk site looks ok, but compared to what you paid for yours it looks too expensive.

In your opinion, what do you think its worth ??

03-07-2005, 14:51
Personally I wouldn't pay 1000 for a rev1 or rev2 lump - I'd want a full rev3 package for that. But thats just me... I'm a tight bu66er! :lol:

Bear in mind for those prices I paid, I had to do quite a bit of hunting around.. and also the folks on here are really helpful when it comes to locating parts.

03-07-2005, 15:01
Yeah well I'm tight too and am in no rush. I was going to do the 3rd Sept trackday with it as it is and then think about converting after that, but if an engine comes up at the right price then I'll buy it.

I only have Fensport's prices to compare with so ?1k looked ok at 1st glance, but I'll wait a bit and keep my eyes open, I think.

03-07-2005, 15:30
Fensport are the no 1 guys in the country when it comes to the 3SGTE, but they are a little on the expensive side.

I got a 65k mile rev 3 engine/gearbox with uprated clutch and flywheel for a grand FWIW. Once you get bored of the stock power, the 3rd generation engine in the rev 3 is so much easier and safer to get decent power out of.

Paul Woods
03-07-2005, 16:56
hello and welcome sooty! where are you? the rev 1 and 2 engines are practically identical,same power output and not too hard to get hold of...rev 3 is a little harder to find but so much better if you do.Power is 245bhp straight out of the box and no pesky AFM to worry about which can be a problem on the rev1 and 2.The turbo on the rev 3 is a much more powerful unit too.As dan says rev 3 is far easier to tune to a higher level and its gearbox comes with LSD attached as standard,rev 1/2 is optional extra.But nothing wrong with rev1/2,i got 280bhp out of mine no probs.

This site is the number one resource for building a mk1 turbo or v6 and the chaps on here will give you every bit of help you need,that includes finding parts for you or helping you through the sticky stages.

If theres any advice i can give (and im sure others will agree) it is try and find a mk2 rear clip,thats the complete back end off a mk2 turbo...if you do that you are guaranteed 95% of the parts you need.If you buy an engine and gearbox i guarantee you will spend a fortune replacing bits you dont have or need,plus if you strip the clip nothing gets damaged or cut through.

Ive compiled a quick list of what you need if a complete rear clip cant be found,i wouldnt pay anymore than ?600 for a rev1/2 clip and no more than ?1000 for a rev 3.Chuck nothing away from your mk1,you will use heater pipes/coolant pipes/oil pressure sender....all sorts!

3s-gte complete engine with all ancillaries
E153 turbo gearbox
turbo supported output shaft and both turbo driveshafts
2 x celica st185 outer CV joints (www.partsinabox.co.uk part number OJ-0220/30)
rev1 turbo mechanical speedo drive
All four turbo engine mounts
Mk2 turbo fuel pump or walbro 255 pump or supra pump
celica alternator bracket for top mount relocation
An exhaust of sorts,mk2 turbo fits just with mods
Mk2 clutch slave cylinder and bracketry/pipes
An induction kit
An intercooler set up,bootmounted or SC position or in front of gearbox,stock mk2 location is hard to do....so IC piping needed
A boost gauge/piping

Thats about all i can think of to get it running,i may have forgot something,this is presuming you get the full engine harness and ecu with it.

Anyway good to have another nutter in the asylum,theres 1.5s popping up all over the place now....oh chaps ive had emails from a guy building one in scotland...scotlands first i believe,hes due to make an appearance here soon.

03-07-2005, 19:03
Hey welcome Sooty :) Now you've joined us you had better check out the Mental Health Act esp section3 (the one they use when detaining you against your will) :evil:
Paul forgot to say Camry's are in season if you fancy a V6 :P
:idea: BTW why you called Sooty :?:

03-07-2005, 20:27
welcome sooty :D all the best with your swap mate . take pauls advice and get the full rear clip or buy a parts car and sell on what youve got left

03-07-2005, 20:42
Jeez, loads of replies in a short space of time - thanks !!

Answering all your questions in no particular order:

- I'm in Bolton so close to a few of you which could be useful for me and annoying for you.

- Username is Sooty after one of my cats. Would you believe I have another called Sweep ?

- V6 might be interesting - any ideas on cost and weight versus 3SGTE ?

I have a 4 other cars which causes me problems when storing things, so although a 'clip' might be useful I'd struggle to find somewhere to put it.

And as for being mad - I think I'm already there.

If anybody comes across anything that might be useful to me, please give me a shout. I'm serious about this !!

04-07-2005, 06:02
welcome to our corner mate.
you have made the absolute right decision in buying a mk1 and doing the swap..i can garuntee you will never look back..!
pauls post as usual hits the spot..
as for the differences between the revisions, as john says its a question of being in the right place at the right time..you can get lucky with a cheap clip if youre patient but you can be assured there will be plenty of mk2 drivers trying to find the same engine for their swap..
if you can get a rev3 then its unquestionably the best option..oh and you def want a LSD box i you can get one, with all that power to put down..
for a list of tech differences have a read of this from bills forum http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=68&highlight=3sgte+differences
i was lucky enough to pick up my rev3 clip for ?600, plus coupla hundred for the shafts which when i purchased them may have been a little high as there wasnt the info around for alternate shafts..nowadays thanks to this lot on here, you ask, you get..!
i hope all of us here can assist you in finding your lump and progressing with your swap asap..

enjoy your stay.. :D

Paul Woods
04-07-2005, 06:49
ah now sooty you have opened a whole new can of worms with v6 v turbo....no one is really sure at the moment as mine isnt finished and hasnt been driven.Jb's V6 is a way off as well so until that happens we cant say for sure.....but i do know if you want to be able to tune your car to silly levels then 3s-gte all the way,they are capable of 500bhp with enough cash thrown at them although traction becomes a serious issue over 300bhp in a mk1 (mine had 280 and it rarely drove straight)

The v6 is the best bang for your buck though,donors are very cheap,complete cars for under ?500,you can actually make money on a v6 swap breaking the camry.I think the v6 and 3s-gte are within 10 or 20 kgs of each other weight wise,both big units....if you want a torque monster with bulletproof reliability and a sound to make you soil yourself then v6 is for you,a TRD supercharger (or homebuilt mini sc like ive done) will give you 250bhp and enough torque to relocate delhi to milton keynes.

All depends what you fancy really.

06-07-2005, 14:31
Yep agree with Paul's comments entirely.
As you are only in Bolton you would be welcome to pop over to have a look at the V6 engine and discuss costs parts etc

09-07-2005, 23:42
welcome mate, another guy to prolly finish the swap before me :) best of luck.. look forward to helping out in anyway. I sourced my clip for 650. it has since cost me more in extra parts, and then theres running gear like clutches and belts etc. so make sure u get your hands on every bit u can if you go ahead. as said. consider also, extra parts needed to make the vehicle safe, uprated brakes, braces, suitable road holding power, possibly harnesses. sounds a bit over kill, but i for one will doing as much i can.. evil machines with enough power to weight ratio/ short wheel base.. to wipe people out in the blink of an eye :wink:

10-07-2005, 10:10

No need to worry about that. Brakes and suspension will be uprated too.

I've just got rid of a Lotus Elise and still have a TVR Griffith so know about high power to weight RWD cars and give them the respect they deserve.

I get the feeling that no matter how much care I take in buying everything before I start, I'll still be searching for a vital part whilst the car is in bits.

Current thinking is to buy a running mk2 turbo - seen some on e-bay for under ?1200. That way I know the engine is running and I should be able to make a reasonable amount back on the rest of the parts.

Is this a good or bad idea ??

10-07-2005, 10:45
Bloody good idea, IMO.

Paul Woods
10-07-2005, 10:48
agreed,a great idea,the only true way to know what you are getting,just as long as the temptation isnt there to keep it in the mk2?

10-07-2005, 10:49
I'm looking at mk2s with no tax/MOT so temptation won't be there !!

Paul Woods
10-07-2005, 10:54
grand! big thumbs up then!

10-07-2005, 10:59
its a great idea..on the breaking subject, if ou acn get a rev3 or later the rear lights and spoilers are well sought after by pre 93 owners..so money to be made there..

10-07-2005, 11:42
To be honest I'm grasping at straws a little, as there seems to be very little about on the internet and I don't have the time to ring up or visit scrapyards.

I doubt I'd get any Rev3 for the money I want to spend, but as mentioned before, I'll be happy with 220bhp from the Rev1/2.

I wish there was somebody doing a drive in, drive out conversion to save all the hassle.

Saying that, that option is available on the Lotus Elise to drop a Honda Civic Type R engine in and costs ?10k, so maybe I will carry on looking myself.

10-07-2005, 11:55
I wish there was somebody doing a drive in, drive out conversion to save all the hassle.

wheres the fun in that..!!??!!