WMS MR2 4 pot CNC brake kits [Archive]

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keri-WMS

07-05-2006, 12:29

(under construction, 18 April 2012)

MK1 MR2 (AW11) WMS brake kits:
Here are the WMS Mk1 (AW11) competition brake kits (each includes calipers/brackets+inserts/bolts etc/discs):

4P041 kit (deep Camry disc) - 277x25 (clearance profile: 277x25 deep PDF (http://www.keri.co.uk/wms/4P041-AW11-DEEP-277mm-T20-rotated.pdf) ) = (£discontinued)
4P041 kit (flat ST185 disc) - 277x25 (clearance profile: 277x25 flat PDF (http://www.keri.co.uk/wms/4P041-AW11-FLAT-277mm-T20-rotated.pdf) ) = (£418.76+vat RRP) = £408.29+vat / £397.82+vat (2.5% Member / 5.0% BigMember discounts)
4P041 (WITHOUT discs) - 277x25 = (£371.75+vat RRP) = £362.46+vat / £353.16+vat (2.5% Member / 5.0% BigMember discounts)

Photos of 4P041 kit contents, plus inside 15" Enkei alloys, and 15" Mk3 MR2 front alloys.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/th_WMS-800x600-4P0411-b.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/WMS-800x600-4P0411-b.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/th_WMS-800x600-4P0411-h.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/WMS-800x600-4P0411-h.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/th_WMS-800x600-4P0411-g.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/WMS-800x600-4P0411-g.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/th_WMS-800x600-4P0411-e.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/WMS-800x600-4P0411-e.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/th_WMS-800x600-4P0411-d.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/WMS-800x600-4P0411-d.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/th_WMS-800x600-4P0411-f.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/WMS-800x600-4P0411-f.jpg)

4P161 kit - 302x22 size kit (clearance profile: 302x22 PDF (http://www.keri.co.uk/wms/4P161-AW11-302mm-T20-rotated.pdf) ) = (£533.32+vat RRP) = £519.99+vat / £506.65+vat (2.5% Member / 5.0% BigMember discounts)

Photos of 4P161 kit contents, plus inside 16" Mk3 MR2 REAR alloys
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/th_WMS-800x600-4P1611-j.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/WMS-800x600-4P1611-j.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/th_WMS-800x600-4P1611-i.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/WMS-800x600-4P1611-i.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/th_WMS-800x600-4P1611-g.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/WMS-800x600-4P1611-g.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/th_WMS-800x600-4P1611-f.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/WMS-800x600-4P1611-f.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/th_WMS-800x600-4P1611-e.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/WMS-800x600-4P1611-e.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/th_WMS-800x600-4P1611-d.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/WMS-800x600-4P1611-d.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/th_WMS-800x600-4P1611-h.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/WMS-800x600-4P1611-h.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/th_WMS-800x600-4P1611-c.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/WMS-800x600-4P1611-c.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/th_WMS-800x600-4P1611-a.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/WMS-800x600-4P1611-a.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/th_WMS-800x600-4P1611-b.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P161/WMS-800x600-4P1611-b.jpg)

MK1 MR2 (AW11) WMS information / options:

Photos of the (4P041) EBC Turbogroove disc option, lines, 2.0mm spacers and EBC Red pads:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/th_WMS-800x600-4P0411-ebc.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/WMS-800x600-4P0411-ebc.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/th_WMS-800x600-4P0411-ebc1.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/WMS-800x600-4P0411-ebc1.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/th_WMS-800x600-4P0411-ebc2.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/WMS-800x600-4P0411-ebc2.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/th_WMS-800x600-4P041-03-002-S.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/WMS-800x600-4P041-03-002-S.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/th_WMS-800x600-4P0411-i.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P041/WMS-800x600-4P0411-i.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/wms/th_WMS-800x600-T20-EBC-Red.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/wms/WMS-800x600-T20-EBC-Red.jpg)

The kits work with the OEM spec master cylinder, 277mm fits under most 15's (the ST185 based version needs 2.0mm spacers to clear the Mk3 15's), 302mm fits under most 16's. See PDFs!

The recomended specs for piston choice/bias for the 4P041 kits are:

- With OEM AW11 rear calipers run 1.25" piston front WMS calipers in most cases (or 1.38" if you have high grip levels).
- With SW20 22v rear calipers, (37.2% more area than AW11 one!) run 1.38" piston front WMS calipers.

(...and the 4P041 bias options in detail...)

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/bias/AW11-B-OEM.gif

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/bias/AW11-B-1_25-4P041-std-rear.gif

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/bias/AW11-B-1_38-4P041-22v-rear.gif

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/bias/AW11-B-1_38-4P041-std-rear.gif

OPTIONAL AW11/WMS EXTRAS:
Earls braided lines to fit WMS calipers (Toyota ones don't) = £55.10+vat/pr
Upgrade to grooved discs (4P041 and 4P161) = £48+vat/pr
Upgrade to EBC Turbogroove (ST185 only) discs = £135.79+vat/pr
ST185 277x25 discs redrilled to fit 4x100 = £47.01+vat/pr
AW11 (4x100, 2.0mm thick) wheel spacers = £19.20+vat/pr

MK2 MR2 (SW20) WMS brake kits:
Here are the WMS Mk2 (SW20) competition brake kits (each includes calipers/brackets+inserts/bolts etc/discs):

4P018 kit (5kg disc) - 298.5x18 (clearance profile: 298.5x18 PDF (http://www.keri.co.uk/wms/4P018-SW20-298_5mm-T20-rotated.pdf) ) = (£431.69+vat RRP) = £420.90+vat / £410.11+vat (2.5% Member / 5.0% BigMember discounts)

Photos of 4P018 kit contents.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P018/th_WMS-800x600-4P0181-d.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P018/WMS-800x600-4P0181-d.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P018/th_WMS-800x600-4P0181-a.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P018/WMS-800x600-4P0181-a.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P018/th_WMS-800x600-4P0181-b.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P018/WMS-800x600-4P0181-b.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P018/th_WMS-800x600-4P0181-c.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P018/WMS-800x600-4P0181-c.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P018/th_WMS-800x600-4P0181-e.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P018/WMS-800x600-4P0181-e.jpg)

4P065 kit (8kg disc) - 296x28 (clearance profile: 296x28 PDF (http://www.keri.co.uk/wms/4P065-SW20-296mm-T20-rotated.pdf) ) = (£455.91+vat RRP) = £444.51+vat / £433.11+vat (2.5% Member / 5.0% BigMember discounts)

Photos of 4P065 kit contents.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P065/th_WMS-800x600-4P0651-b.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P065/WMS-800x600-4P0651-b.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P065/th_WMS-800x600-4P0651-d.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P065/WMS-800x600-4P0651-d.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P065/th_WMS-800x600-4P0651-c.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P065/WMS-800x600-4P0651-c.jpg)

MK2 MR2 (SW20) WMS information / options:

Photos of the SW20/WMS optional lines, EBC Red pads and wheel spacers:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P018/th_WMS-800x600-4P018-03-003-S.jpg (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/4P018/WMS-800x600-4P018-03-003-S.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/wms/th_WMS-800x600-T20-EBC-Red.jpg (http://s279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/wms/WMS-800x600-T20-EBC-Red.jpg) http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/spacers/th_WMS-800x600-spacer-5x114_3-67-150-4_0th.jpg (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/spacers/WMS-800x600-spacer-5x114_3-67-150-4_0th.jpg)

The recomended specs for piston choice/bias for the 4P018/4P065 kits are:

- With Rev 2> 22v rear calipers run 1.38" piston front WMS calipers.
- With Rev 1 rear calipers run 1.25" piston front WMS calipers.

(...and the 4P018/4P065 bias options in detail...)

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/bias/SW20-R1-OEM.gif

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/bias/SW20-R2-OEM.gif

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/bias/SW20-R2-1_38-4P018.gif

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/bias/SW20-R1-1_25-4P018.gif

Next three have no handbrake (WMS 4 pot F & R) so full-race only!

Maintains bais, might have a soft pedal:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/bias/SW20-1_75-4P018-1_38-rear.gif

Increases front bias, medium pedal:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/bias/SW20-1_75-4P018-1_25-rear.gif

Increases rear bias, best pedal:
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/bias/SW20-1_38-4P018-1_25-rear.gif

OPTIONAL SW20/WMS EXTRAS:
Earls braided lines to fit WMS calipers (Toyota ones don't) = £52.54+vat/pr
Upgrade to grooved discs = £48+vat/pr
SW20 (5x114.3, 4.0mm thick) wheel spacers = £23.80+vat/pr

I've generated PDF files showing the profiles of all the kits, the idea is you can print them, check they are 1:1 scale, stick them to card and cut them out - and offer them up to the inside of your wheels to see if they'll fit, like this:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/wms/th_IMG_1560b.jpg (http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/wms/IMG_1560b.jpg)

Pads to fit WMS kits are:
- EBC Greens (don't get my personal vote AT ALL) fast road = £28.71+vat/set
- EBC Reds (fast road/trackday recommended!) = £35.38+vat/set
- EBC Yellows (VERY fast road/trackday/full race) = £34.37+vat/set
- EBC Blues (endurance full race) = £37.80+vat/set
- DS2500 (fast road) = £47.20+vat/set
- DS3000 (race) = £50.40+vat/set

We also offer some handy Toyota EBC pads:

ST185 front Greenstuff (p/number TBC) = £POA
ST185 front Redstuff = £POA
AW11 front Greenstuff = £POA
AW11 front Redstuff (p/number TBC) = £POA
AW11 rear Greenstuff = £POA
AW11 rear Redstuff (p/number TBC) = £POA
AW11 rear Yellowstuff (p/number TBC) = £POA
SW20 rear Greenstuff (p/number TBC) = £POA
SW20 rear Redstuff (p/number TBC) = £POA
SW20 rear Yellowstuff (p/number TBC) = £POA

On all NEW orders you get 2.5% off the for members, 5% off for BigMembers which applies to the kit but not the pads, lines and other extras. Also any orders settled up by bank transfer (optional of course!) has FREE SHIPPING otherwise it's £10.00+vat (to UK zone one only).

nik

07-05-2006, 15:04

lovely kit Keri..
as mentioned, as well as the generous discount for club members and group buys, Keri has agreed a small donation to the club will be made for every sale..so big thanks go to him and WMS..:thumbsup:

Marksman

07-05-2006, 15:21

Hi Keri.

So if my maths is correct thats ?480 all in for calipers, hoses, grooved disks, red pads and shipping including the TB discount.

Just to confirm, do these disks now locate on the hubs and not on the wheel studs as per your last batch?

Cheers and good luck,

Owen.

keri-WMS

07-05-2006, 16:00

Ta Nik! More toys to come if all goes according to plan...

This kit does indeed locate off the bore, unlike the early prototype. That said I ran that setup for ages and it was fine, it's just better to stick to what people are used to if possible.

Keri

mr2aw11turbo

07-05-2006, 16:01

In the pipeline:

310/298.5mm x 32mm front kit on ally bells.
298.5mm REAR kit on ally bells! :cool:

Fire away with any questions......

:eek2: them's gonna be some big stoppers

keri-WMS

07-05-2006, 17:19

Yupyup, and I've got the TERRIBLE task of testing them on my car before anyone else can have any! Oh woe is me....! :boogie:

Rowdan

07-05-2006, 17:30

PS It's an upgrade over the prototype 278mm first version I created and show IMOC a while ago in case anyone's wondering... :moon:

So what size are the discs ?x? .

mart1975

07-05-2006, 17:32

lovely, any chance of cooking these brakes as the discs are small?

Peebs

07-05-2006, 17:33

Pheweee!

:thumbsup: to that man.

AbFab work there Keri, top notch kit matey, well done.

keri-WMS

07-05-2006, 18:18

Ah, well spotted, I forgot to put the disc size in! They are 277mm x 25mm, so a decent amount bigger than AW11b (and tons bigger than AW11a of course).

They are NOT Celica discs though before anyone says they are! I found a better fitting disc to use. :hoarder: (answers on a postcard...)

You CAN cook them with greens (well, I could), but it took a lot of REALLY deliberate stupidity. Greens on the OEM discs on the other hand would fade really easily with just two of three hard stops from 100mph ish. Reds are a different story, nigh on impossible to fade and perfectly ok from cold, they get my vote! :thumbsup:

Of course it's not really a fair comparison as with more powerful front brakes, they do more work = more heat than their "share". With a rear kit fitted as well.... well I can't wait to find out actually!!!! :hyper:

The "big" caliper for the 310mm kit also has stainless steel internal heat shielding, so it should very resistant to heat buildup in race use, and the fluid boiling etc.

This will help in the case of anyone who's putting vast power increases into their cars.... I sure "one or two" of you are twisted in this way!

djdna2000

08-05-2006, 12:31

I am very interested to see what the 310mm setup looks like. Who makes your calipers?

keri-WMS

08-05-2006, 12:41

I sub out the manufacturing to an external supplier, the calipers are a custom spec. ie, WMS calipers are not available from anyone else!

I'll post photos of the 310mm kit as soon as it's ready, it'll need 16's in most cases and it's a fair way off yet....

Keri

keri-WMS

22-05-2006, 21:45

Just an update: this kit is now available!

Stock is limited to five kits in the first run, one already has my name on it so let me know quick if anyone wants their name put down on one of the others...

Other kits are in the works, you guys will be the first to know! :mrgreen:

millentubby

23-05-2006, 11:31

So what did the front discs come off?

keri-WMS

23-05-2006, 11:44

...a 5x100 PCD Toyota, with a 54mm centre bore, that is not a Celica, and is very much overlooked in terms of it's brakes!

You guys must be able to figure this one out...it means you can get your discs from other sources if you were feeling all DIY.

I'll give you a clue, the engine is popular! :hmm:

Paff

23-05-2006, 12:56

Avensis, Camry, Carina, or corona.

If it was to be any of these I would have possibly thought the Camry seen as you say the engine is popular

keri-WMS

23-05-2006, 17:42

Spot on, Paff's the winner! They are from the Camry VZV21 2.5 V6 with ABS...

This means you COULD (if you REALLY wanted) use the old discs of the donor Camry V6 that your engine came from, and add the missing 3 "4x100" holes. Something satisfying about that - use as many bits of the donor car as possible!

That said, no-one's appearing to use the 2.5 - so maybe not... :woods:

jasper

13-08-2006, 01:38

Any news on these Keri:

In the pipeline:

310/298.5mm x 32mm front kit on ally bells.
298.5mm REAR kit on ally bells!

keri-WMS

13-08-2006, 08:25

Any news on these Keri:

In the pipeline:

310/298.5mm x 32mm front kit on ally bells.
298.5mm REAR kit on ally bells!

No ETA as yet, but the prototypes should be ready soonish and on my car for testing....

As soon as anything else is available you guys will be the first to know! :-)

Paul Woods

13-08-2006, 09:52

im well up for the 300mm rear kit on ally bells!

keri-WMS

13-08-2006, 10:07

im well up for the 300mm rear kit on ally bells!

You don't want the (planned/designed) 330mm x 12mm rear kit on alloy bells that re-uses the AW11 a/b caliper then...? :whistle:

I've just worked out that the front 298.5 x 20.5 kit with 4-pots (alloy bells) will fit under my 16" Mk3 alloys without spacers! :mrgreen:

Paul Woods

13-08-2006, 10:49

hell yes! ive got 325 fronts so a 330 rear using the stock caliper would be awesome! Id only need the discs though as ive got modified mk2 rear calipers that id need to "make fit"

keri-WMS

13-08-2006, 10:53

hell yes! ive got 325 fronts so a 330 rear using the stock caliper would be awesome! Id only need the discs though as ive got modified mk2 rear calipers that id need to "make fit"

With luck I can do the same thing with huge vented rear discs and the Mk2 rear caliper...

Watch this space!

Paul Woods

13-08-2006, 10:56

ah it wont work,ive got woodsport/corrado modifed mk2 rear calipers u see....specially welded carrier brackets so they dont have a mk2 or mk1 offset if you see what i mean,so i would need to make the calipers fit myself.

keri-WMS

13-08-2006, 11:22

Paul Woods

13-08-2006, 11:44

what you have a special caliper carrier bracket with the sliders on and everything? sounds perfect! im in!

keri-WMS

13-08-2006, 11:59

what you have a special caliper carrier bracket with the sliders on and everything? sounds perfect! im in!

That's the plan (pending prototyping and testing)! It looks do-able, if slightly complicated (for me). The cool bit is that anyone with either a or b spec rear calipers could unbolt the caliper and swing it out the way, bin/shelve their disc and carrier, fit the 330x12 or 298.5x12 WMS alloy bell and rotor with the stainless carrier (re-use the pads and clips, or buy new ones), drop the caliper back onto the new carrier and that's it.

No brake bleeding / fluid to clear up or messing with the handbrake etc... :boogie:

I think I will have to opt for a 320mm version under my 16's from memory though! >:(

Of course this should make the handbrake...."potent"!

Paul Woods

13-08-2006, 12:21

ah theres a slight flaw in the plan,nothing major but a flaw all the same,the brake flexi wont stretch from its bracketed position on the strut to the new position further out on a 330mm disc,so peeps would either have to go braided or move the securing bracket outward as well....not a huge problem at all.

Let us know when these become available keri,im definately in for some 330 vented rears and adapters that will work with the mk2 caliper.

keri-WMS

13-08-2006, 14:16

ah theres a slight flaw in the plan,nothing major but a flaw all the same,the brake flexi wont stretch from its bracketed position on the strut to the new position further out on a 330mm disc,so peeps would either have to go braided or move the securing bracket outward as well....not a huge problem at all.

Drat and double drat, I was hoping I'd get away with that! Ho hum, braided hoses are not a problem though and people do like them!

Marksman

13-08-2006, 15:05

keri-WMS

13-08-2006, 15:30

Might be able to get away with a spacer plate that moves the clip on the strut casing outboard a tad. They're easy enough to chop and twist open with a dremel if you don't want the hassle of breaking open the hose and rebleeding.

Cheers all,

Owen.

I don't think I'll risk telling people to do that to be honest! You know someone's bound to cut their lines up in the process!!!

Marksman

13-08-2006, 17:58

Fair point!

Though you could tell them to undo the hose, fit the spacer plate and reattatch, that way you're covered. If those of use who like a grind chose to ignore your instructions then we do so at our own risk...

That said I presume someone who's willing to shell out for alloy bell housing disky bits would probably fit new braided hoses as a matter of course. That said it would be nice if the current aftermarket MK1 hose sets fit the new setup. Or at least allowed the set of mainstream hoses to be used, even if they were made for a different car. Are supra hoses any longer for example...

All the best,

Owen.

keri-WMS

13-08-2006, 18:04

randomfactor

22-08-2006, 19:51

Keri, how are you doing with the brake kits? My calipers are in terrible condition and I could use one of these kits if there's some going.
Cheers

keri-WMS

09-09-2006, 11:00

Keri, how are you doing with the brake kits? My calipers are in terrible condition and I could use one of these kits if there's some going.
Cheers

Missed this one, sorry!

The front 277mm 4-pot kit is available but out of stock for the moment I'm afraid... the other kits are all under development still.

If you drop me an email I'll make sure I get in touch when they are back in stock!

Keri

eight-six

09-09-2006, 11:47

Hmmm I wonder if these would mount to my AE86 hubs. The caliper mount bracket looks identical to another caliper kit I have seen for AE86's. Would just need 4x100 PCD discs.

keri-WMS

09-09-2006, 12:53

Hmmm I wonder if these would mount to my AE86 hubs. The caliper mount bracket looks identical to another caliper kit I have seen for AE86's. Would just need 4x100 PCD discs.

Hi, the discs ARE 4x100 (plus 5x100) but I don't know if this will fit the RWD Corollas.... The offset and bore might be different etc, but we've not tried.

Even if it's different, there will be a nice solution I'm sure! :beer:

If you want me to look into a kit for you the fastest way is to lend me a spare front strut/hub/disc/caliper/brake line assembly to work on/measure up - I can get up to 30kg parcels collected with no hassles..

Keri

keri-WMS

20-09-2006, 21:00

Back in stock!!!! :-)

Shorty

21-09-2006, 12:08

How much for the front system only? without VAT since i will pay that in my country. Norway.

keri-WMS

21-09-2006, 12:59

Hi, I think you won't have to pay VAT when it arrives in Norway as the shipping is within the EU, but I do have to charge the VAT (as far as I know). I'll have to check that, and I'll also have to check that the VAT is at the correct rate, the rules might be I charge VAT at the Norway rate...?

Anyway, the current prices are:

(edited to remove old prices, see first post for updates - Keri)

Basic shipping to Norway based on 20KG = £76.05(+ taxes) ...I might be able to reduce this!!!

Thanks,

Keri

How much for the front system only? without VAT since i will pay that in my country. Norway.

Shorty

22-09-2006, 16:35

keri-WMS

22-09-2006, 16:55

Well, that might be exactly what i`m looking for. However, the VAT will not be payed in UK since Norway is not in EU so therefore i get VAT in Norway instead. Or if you charge it you will haveto pay it back to me after it arrives....

76?... holy crap!:eek2:

Ah...I thought Norway was in the EU, I stand corrected in that case!

Let me know if you want a kit and I'll try and find a better shipping rate...

Sooty

23-09-2006, 15:55

Anyway, the current prices are:

Front 277mm 4pot kit (discs, calipers, bolts, brackets) = ?331.90
Lines = ?42.46
EBC Green pads = ?25.07
EBC Red pads = ?30.90
Keri

Keri,

I hate EBC pads with a vengeance. Are the pads from another vehicle so that I can obtain the right sized pads for the calipers? Or if you don't want to divulge the info, can you get me a price for a set of Ferodo DS2500 pads.

I might be in the market for 2 front brake kits in the next month - what are stocks like atm ??

keri-WMS

23-09-2006, 16:31

Keri,

I hate EBC pads with a vengeance. Are the pads from another vehicle so that I can obtain the right sized pads for the calipers? Or if you don't want to divulge the info, can you get me a price for a set of Ferodo DS2500 pads.

I might be in the market for 2 front brake kits in the next month - what are stocks like atm ??

Low-ish, three sets of the brackets from memory!

The pads are exactly the same as used by the Wilwood Dynalite (a very common motorsport shape, not off a raod car to the best of my knowledge), so Hawk do them, Performance Friction do them, and I THINK Ferodo do as well but I can't find them to be sure.... What EBC's have you used? I don't like the Greens....

eight-six

23-09-2006, 18:20

Cheers for the reply mate, soory been a boob and forgot to respond.

Hi, the discs ARE 4x100 (plus 5x100) but I don't know if this will fit the RWD Corollas.... The offset and bore might be different etc, but we've not tried.

Sorry meant to say 4 x 114.3 PCD disc's. I think the old Celica Supra was the same PCD.

If you want me to look into a kit for you the fastest way is to lend me a spare front strut/hub/disc/caliper/brake line assembly to work on/measure up - I can get up to 30kg parcels collected with no hassles..

Ok mate will do, will probably be for later on nearer winter. I plan strip the car down again and strip out some more weight, seam weld it etc so I can afford to loose a front hub assembly for a month or two.

Will be in touch. :beer:

Cheers

James

keri-WMS

23-09-2006, 18:25

Ok mate will do, will probably be for later on nearer winter. I plan strip the car down again and strip out some more weight, seam weld it etc so I can afford to loose a front hub assembly for a month or two.

Will be in touch. :beer:

It's a plan! :thumbsup:

Keri

Sooty

23-09-2006, 20:01

What EBC's have you used? I don't like the Greens....

On my Lotus Elan, I tried green, red and black. All useless imho.

I've had Ferodos on my track 309GTi and my race E30 BMW 320i, and for the money (approx. ?50) found nothing better.

keri-WMS

23-09-2006, 22:09

On my Lotus Elan, I tried green, red and black. All useless imho.

I've had Ferodos on my track 309GTi and my race E30 BMW 320i, and for the money (approx. ?50) found nothing better.

Fair enough! (we have an E30 kit as well by the way!!!! :angel: )

Sooty

24-09-2006, 00:48

Fair enough! (we have an E30 kit as well by the way!!!! :angel: )

Don't have the E30 any more. That went to fund the 1.5.

There is a gap in the market for the M100 Elan though, that Willwood have tried to get into, but still quite expensive.

keri-WMS

24-09-2006, 10:17

There is a gap in the market for the M100 Elan though, that Willwood have tried to get into, but still quite expensive.

Ah ha! What are the uprights off? I have a feeling someone told me they were Spitfire?

keri-WMS

24-09-2006, 17:56

The new WMS Type-35!!! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300031395065

No kits yet, but do you think they are big enough for Paul??? :shades:

http://i7.ebayimg.com/01/i/08/71/f3/fc_3.JPG

Paff

24-09-2006, 18:13

They look stunning mate, If I hadn't already got the 205's and had spare money they'd be considered for sure.

Needs another 2 pots tho :)

Garbe

24-09-2006, 18:24

I've been drooling over this thread for ages now, even more so now :drool:
I have a MK2, do you / will you be doing anything for the MK2 soon.
the price is great for an upgraded brake set up.

keri-WMS

24-09-2006, 18:25

Needs another 2 pots tho :)
All good things... :shhh:

keri-WMS

24-09-2006, 18:26

I've been drooling over this thread for ages now, even more so now :drool:
I have a MK2, do you / will you be doing anything for the MK2 soon.
the price is great for an upgraded brake set up.

We've got a Mk2 kit in CAD (well, the brackets are the only thing missing in fact)...

Watch this space, needless to say there are lot of people after a Mk2 kit!

Garbe

24-09-2006, 18:29

Watch this space, needless to say there are lot of people after a Mk2 kit!

:icon_eek: watching :thumbsup:

Sooty

24-09-2006, 19:53

Ah ha! What are the uprights off? I have a feeling someone told me they were Spitfire?

Dunno, tbh. If you want to do some research, have a look at ...

www.lotuselancentral.com

keri-WMS

24-09-2006, 20:22

Dunno, tbh. If you want to do some research, have a look at ...

www.lotuselancentral.com

Oooooops, that type of Elan is a bit newer than I had visualised it!!! :blush:

Are you talking about the front wheel drive one? If so it's Vauxhall Astra as far as I can figure out!

Given that fact, there is a kit on it's way without a doubt. :jump:

Sooty

24-09-2006, 22:45

Uses Astra front discs - not sure about calipers.

keri-WMS

30-09-2006, 17:34

As few of you have asked if the WMS AW11 4pot kit will work with the ST185 disc, the answer is yes (in theory!). The disc we use has a specified height (or offset) of 48mm, the ST185 one is 47mm.

So in theory you just need to add 1mm thick washers under the bracket to move the caliper and that's it - slap them on your existing ST185 277mm setups!

We went for the 48mm disc as it positions the caliper 1mm further away from the wheels which is always an advantage, but in most cases with 15's it's fine either way.

If peeps want the kit with no discs (to re-use their ST185 ones) it's:

(edited to remove old prices, see first post for updates - Keri)

Hope that's of some use!!! :mrgreen:

Shorty

22-10-2006, 16:58

Keri, did you check up on the tax thingy. I`m getting a bit closer to needing the complete front setup.

keri-WMS

22-10-2006, 19:27

Keri, did you check up on the tax thingy. I`m getting a bit closer to needing the complete front setup.

To the best of my knowledge/investigation Norway is indeed outside the EC VAT Territory, so it looks like I don't have to charge you VAT!

There's three kits left at the moment, let me know if you want one... :-)

Keri

Shorty

22-10-2006, 20:20

To the best of my knowledge/investigation Norway is indeed outside the EC VAT Territory, so it looks like I don't have to charge you VAT!

There's three kits left at the moment, let me know if you want one... :-)

Keri

Eh. I WANT ONE. Pm`ed. (soon atleast)

I`m trying eventually to get this car through MOT so these brakes MUST be big enough right? I`m going for a mk2 master brake aswell so that should be adequid? (haha, that word i just can`t spell) ;)

keri-WMS

22-10-2006, 23:07

I`m trying eventually to get this car through MOT so these brakes MUST be big enough right?

I don't think brake size comes into MOTs (they are of course big!!!)...? Some UK places can apparently be funny about braided lines but it's rare.

I`m going for a mk2 master brake aswell so that should be adequid? (haha, that word i just can`t spell) ;)

You won't need to change the master cylendar as the WMS calipers are only 11.4% extra piston area to keep a firm pedal - unless you're doing other things to the rear brakes as well?

Shorty

23-10-2006, 00:09

keri-WMS

23-10-2006, 11:27

They do in Norway. They calculate all these things up to the power on the engnine and if they had a bad morning, then your fu*?ed. I read that to do the mk2 master sylinder is a good idea as it gives a bit better preasure.

Oh, you know i`m Norwegien right?:)

The problem with master cylinder is that you can get more pressure by fitting a smaller bore size. However you get a softer pedal as a result...

You can go the other way and fit a bigger master cylinder to get a hard pedal but you'll reduce the fluid pressure and will have to push harder on the pedal.

A setup with 1.0 square inches of piston area at the caliper and 1.0 square inches of piston/bore area at the master calinder works exactly the same as a setup with 4.0 square inches of piston area at the caliper and 4.0 square inches of piston/bore area at the master cylinder!!!

The increase in available brake torque and energy absorption should be plenty in most cases, what percentage of extra power have you got over the standard car?

superchargedsam

23-10-2006, 14:12

Some UK places can apparently be funny about braided lines but it's rare.

Keri whats the problem with braided lines, have always fitted them to my bikes as matter of course and am now about to do the same to me cars but didnt realsie there was a possible legal issue with them ! can you elaborate on it at all ?

keri-WMS

23-10-2006, 18:45

Keri whats the problem with braided lines, have always fitted them to my bikes as matter of course and am now about to do the same to me cars but didnt realsie there was a possible legal issue with them ! can you elaborate on it at all ?

I really don't know to be honest....just that they are non-standard bits and some places don't like upgrades etc I suspect. They can get full of grit etc which rubber ones can't I suppose... on the other hand rubber ones can fail and baloon which braided ones can't (as easily anyway).

There is one thing that you need to remember with braided lines - if you're welding in such a way that the current goes through them it can frazzle / partialy melt them or the teflon inners!!! Luckily most people never need to weld hubs of struts so it's rare.

superchargedsam

23-10-2006, 19:59

well anyone apart from PW you mean ;) cheers for the info fella !

halim.matin

30-10-2006, 13:58

hi,

is there a rear brake kit available?

keri-WMS

30-10-2006, 16:04

hi,

is there a rear brake kit available?

Not as yet - but there will be! Watch this space....

superchargedsam

30-10-2006, 16:53

coolio cant wait for them !

Shorty

07-11-2006, 22:07

It`s soooo boring to wait for the kit to arrive. Not that i`m not gonna install it now anyway but from the minute i paid i started to check out the window for the mailman:)

Can`t wait to get it, open it, stroke it, hug it... eh,,, wait, that`s another dream. Bygones ( love using that);)

jasper

19-11-2006, 15:57

Are you sleeping with the kit on your pillow yet Shorty lol

Shorty

19-11-2006, 16:57

Oh yes:) And loving it too:)

jasper

19-11-2006, 17:01

lol you sick freak lol

spooner69

14-12-2006, 21:15

Shorty

14-12-2006, 21:26

I don`t think it needs any more mods but i got a master sylinder from an mk2 just in case. Also i assume since the front kit fits under 15" alloys, the rear will too.

I`m interested in the rearkit too, needs upgrading aswell.:)

lodgeman

14-12-2006, 21:44

oh and any xmas special offers going at the moment?:blush: :boogie:

keri-WMS

15-12-2006, 13:02

Hi keri im mad to get this kit for front and rear of my 89 aw11! so ive a few q's for you ;
1.Is black the only colour the caliper is available in ?, Id love them in red or gold!
2.How much to ship them to Dublin?
3.Is the rear kit available yet and what size are they? Will the rear kit fit under 15" alloys.
4.Is the offset of the alloys a factor in fitting this kit?
5.Will these kits when put on both front and rear require any modifying of the rest of the braking system,i.e. bigger master cylinder etc?

Hi!

1. Black only, sorry!
2. Based on a 20kg box (inc 1kg of pads) it's ?48.15+vat. If you happen to know someone in N.I. who can accept it then give it to you by hand then it drops to ?15.96+vat....
3. Not yet, although I can probably do a RACE ONLY (no handbrake) rear kit if needed. Not sure on wheel sizes yet, 15" is the aim though.
4. Yes, but mainly because of the shape of the inside of the wheel. What wheels are you using?
5. The front kit doesn't need a bigger master cyl as it's only an extra 11% or so piston area - but no harm in fitting the mk2 one if you want! Not sure about rear kits but I try to keep things as close to OEM as possible to minimise extra installation costs.

oh and any xmas special offers going at the moment?
Hmmm, I'll up the brutal (edited to remove old prices, see first post for updates - Keri) on orders placed before Boxing day, how about that? :jump:

There are only two pairs of brackets left at the moment though....

spooner69

15-12-2006, 20:15

I dont know anyone up the north so I will have to fork out arse! , postal costs in ireland are a joke.
I'l definitely hang on until you get a rear kit that incorporates the handbrake.
Ive got crappy 15's at the mo which il ultimately be replacing them with these babys: It says on the ebay ad i got this pic off: 8x15" offset 18 front

8x15" offset 3 rear
Thats probably no good to you but hey!

thanks for answering all my q's too.:thumbsup:

keri-WMS

16-12-2006, 11:03

Ive got crappy 15's at the mo which il ultimately be replacing them with these babys: It says on the ebay ad i got this pic off: 8x15" offset 18 front

8x15" offset 3 rear
Thats probably no good to you but hey!

thanks for answering all my q's too.:thumbsup:

No problem!

That style of wheel, with "deep dish" on the outside is the worst for getting a 4-pot caliper behind the spokes....

Unless you're getting REALLY wide ones with the offset changed to push the wheel further out (under custom arches)?

Andy.B

19-05-2007, 05:56

We've got a Mk2 kit in CAD (well, the brackets are the only thing missing in fact)...

Watch this space, needless to say there are lot of people after a Mk2 kit!

Did anything happen about the MK2 kit??

Id be well up for testing a set if they are still in the prototyping stage :thumbsup: Thats obviously if you need them testing.

keri-WMS

19-05-2007, 09:42

Did anything happen about the MK2 kit??

Id be well up for testing a set if they are still in the prototyping stage :thumbsup: Thats obviously if you need them testing.

Nothing's ready yet I'm afraid... [:(

You guys will be the first to know though!

nick.parker

02-07-2007, 03:20

Hi,

How important are dust boots that so many 'race' spec aftermarket calipers seem to lack on their caliper pistons? All OEM vehicles and even up specced performance OEM (brembo) stuff have them. Not having them puts me off after market calipers. What is the main reason not to use them? It kind of feels like the same approach to saving money as used by oil only cooled turbos that are popping up so often on e-bay. Again, you never see an OEM turbo without water cooling. Is it only a $ thing? I'd prefer the peace of mind on either of the aforementioned - less maintenance and problems in the long run.

Cheers, Nick.

superchargedsam

02-07-2007, 09:09

can I just say I now have this setup fitted to the front of a supercharger and most impressed, shame I havent been able to try them out in the wet yet but get a thumbs up from me especially at a third of the price of the equivalent AP set up I have!

msherry21

02-07-2007, 09:30

How do they compare to the AP's Sam?

superchargedsam

02-07-2007, 10:24

cant comment yet fella as not tried the APs out as sat in a box still as these are destined for my tintop SC when the new engine goes in over winter but having driven a 1.5 with the ST205s on I can say there aint much difference there, as a guide the AP set up us £1400 for calipers, mounting brackets and pads with ally bells and rotors so compare that to the WMS kit and it aint nearly a grands worth of better for sure and certainly aint the £1150 more than you could a decent ST205 setup for either.

Should be able to do a decent comparison in the spring as should have WMS, AP and ST205 all in cars running from 190-300bhp to test out!

keri-WMS

02-07-2007, 10:27

External piston seals have always been a controversial subject...

Basically the reason race calipers don't use them is that they burn off under the massive temperatures that are possible with performance use/race pads etc (crusty/burnt/tattered external seals of course leave the pistons totally open to damage - worse than fitting none in the first place!!)!
:eek2:
Another factor is materials. To save money road calipers often have cast iron bodies and cast iron/mild steel pistons, so salty water off UK roads can cause a lot of damage. WMS calipers on the other hand have stainless steel pistons and thick-anodised bodies - impervious to conditions that would eat away cast iron/mild steel. The WMS bores are also resistant to mechanical wear as while Aluminium is relatively soft, the Aluminium OXIDE that makes the anodised skin is VERY hard: so hard in fact it's used in some types of sandpaper!

Lastly WMS caliper HAVE got dust seals, but they are internal - just down the bore slightly. This is the same idea as Metro calipers, Austin Princess calipers, Rover SD1........and even Land Rover calipers, which get a LOT of mud related abuse!

The bottom line is that all the WMS bits are designed for race use and using them on the road is up to the buyer (like Wilwood etc). However, we offer free seals if they fail within 12 months (from memory), any even better the fact is we've NEVER had to supply anyone with seals, ever! So to date, it appears no WMS caliper has even needed a rebuild - and we've sold rather a lot of them! :thumbsup:

Hope that helps clear things up, sorry to go on a bit...!

superchargedsam

02-07-2007, 10:32

great info there Keri didnt think about seals burning up under the heat loading but makes perfect sense. As ever very useful info for the TB community.

nick.parker

02-07-2007, 13:50

Thanks for the info. Nice to hear some real reasons ;).
Cheers, Nick

keri-WMS

02-07-2007, 14:12

No problem! :thumbsup:

robwsurf

03-07-2007, 12:05

do you do a rear kit yet with handbrake too?

keri-WMS

03-07-2007, 23:07

do you do a rear kit yet with handbrake too?

Not yet I'm afraid..... I've got some rather cunning ideas though! :thumbsup:

superchargedsam

05-07-2007, 12:01

ok have now been driving for a week with the 4 pot set up with green stuff pads and grooved discs and can say they are fecking awesome even in the wet! loads of feel, very progressive and loads of force! Have now driven with wilwood setup, ST205, upgraded standard discs and pads and hoses and now the WMS and have to say am more impressed with the WMS that I thought I would be so huge :thumbsup: from me! the 4 ally 4 pots are what it should have come with as standard IMHO (just like a 2.0L tubby engine)! cant wait for some rears now keri!

Time will tell on the discs but so far so good, I am a very late braker and managed to warp my first set of ST205 discs on my GT4 within 10 days of buying the car and will be picking up my third set for that car at JAE so do tend to eat discs and pad rapidly but this setup is holding more than firm so far so good choice of discs as well there keri!

halim.matin

05-07-2007, 15:29

Sam, you recomend the WMS setup then????

Keri, will you PM me so we can talk shop ;-)

superchargedsam

05-07-2007, 16:21

Halim this is how I cost the brake options:

AP front setup is £1400 delivered and is the daddy of MK1 options but in most cases worth more than the base car so not reall a contender, havent tested them out yet but cant imagine they will be anything but amazing having used them on bikes before!
St205 setup:
Calipers circa £125 plus rebuild kit at circa £30, discs with machining circa £200 (am doing new prices here for disc comparisons) decent pads circa £40 so St205 setup circa £395
WMS Kit with grooved disc upgrade and green stuffs for a shade under £500.

Nowt wrong with the ST205 setup as have driven and used this and its awesome, AP havent driven but its £1400 and u wont get it any cheaper than that I dont think, WMS kit for a shade under £500 for lightwieght ally calipers with superb stopping power!

My choice of the above would be the WMS kit as its also gotta be the lightest of them all as well with aI rekon the ST205s being the heviest kit all round! Any wieght lost here is unsprung mass so will only help your handling and increase brake efficiency further! bigger is usually good but not at a cost of unsprung mass so for track or fast road would have to go with the WMS kit for sure becuase the extra £100 u pay over an ST205 setup has gotta be worth it just for the wieght saving I rekon in the grand scheme of things!

Will be able to test 185, 205, AP and WMS back to back in the spring but no way I can get it done for this year! Also dont forget that better brakes mean later breaking means faster driving on the roads and curcuits as better brakes can be worth good times on the track as less time spent braking means more time moving forward faster IMHO! ;)

The setup I have has grooved disc option and green stuff pads and braided hoses all round with standard rears and stops on a die!

halim.matin

05-07-2007, 17:01

i got the ST165 calipers, with braided hoses all round, and green pads....
My stopping power is sh1t!!!

superchargedsam

05-07-2007, 19:01

What do u mean by shit, do you mean they lock up and just slide which points to tyres or just dont stop you? I can lock my SC up on standard fronts very easy and thats with totally standard calipers discs and pads and lines and 5 yo brake fluid!

If they just dont have the power to stop you something must be going on! I am taking my WMS braked car to JAE so u can try them if you like!

halim.matin

05-07-2007, 23:16

no stoping power mate!!!

superchargedsam

05-07-2007, 23:56

hmmm something is a miss there then as I know the 165s aint up there with the WMS or 205s but should still haul you up smartish! Not being funny but are the rear anchors working ok cuz if your rear calipers are siezed up and not sliding it will feck up your braking good and proper as fronts cant handle the full loading on thier own! My SC wasnt stopping to clever so stripped rebuilt and breased up the rear calipers and put some new discs and pads on and whooooaaa it stopped quick smart after that! Just an idea as was sure 165s werent three bad at the old stopping trick! Just an idea fella!

MRV6

06-07-2007, 06:58

Any news on the mk2 brakes yet?

superchargedsam

06-07-2007, 08:28

Any news on the mk2 brakes yet?

Phil we have asked Keri not to go to fast on MK2 brakes as we need a constant supply of engines ;)

MRV6

06-07-2007, 13:12

Awww why didn't Mr.T make camrys with a 3sg-te engine in. That way keep us all happy.

superchargedsam

06-07-2007, 13:28

yup Phil that wouldabeen perfik!

Marksman

06-07-2007, 14:13

Couldn't we do a deal with the stock MK2 drivers Sam? I'm sure if we put our old 4-age engines into empty Camry engine bays then they'd do for the probe brigade. Power, weight and looks would all be a pretty close match to them after all?

O.S.

superchargedsam

06-07-2007, 14:40

LMFAO@Owen!

nick.parker

23-08-2007, 05:30

310/298.5mm x 32mm front kit on ally bells.
298.5mm REAR kit on ally bells!
Just wondering if the pipeline is still progressing? I am attracted by the bolt on-ness, lighter disc due to alloy hat (even though you said a whopping 32mm wide) and not having the legal implications of swiss cheesing a 5 stud brake disc.

Squizz

23-08-2007, 11:42

Another interested party here in the larger brake sizes...

We already race an MR2 and I'm aiming to build a V6 Mk1 race car for next year.

Cheers,
Rich.

rattymr2

23-08-2007, 16:37

surely if Keri develops the mk2 rear based kit and gets them off the tubby's late at night, chances are in the morning there will be plenty of engine donors

keri-WMS

23-08-2007, 20:40

Another interested party here in the larger brake sizes...

We already race an MR2 and I'm aiming to build a V6 Mk1 race car for next year.

Cheers,
Rich.

From memory the current (MR2 challange?) race car rule don't allow brake upgrades other than pads?

I assume the V6 will be in another series though - I'll let you know as soon as we have any more info.

The first "sensible" alloy bell kit will now probably use 298.5 x 20.5 rotors to save a bit of weight over the 32mm wide version and help people fit daft wheels! rotflmao

There ARE alloys out there that will accept 300mm/310mm kits inside a 15" (proper Team Dynamics for one)..... :driving:

nick.parker

24-08-2007, 05:24

Sounds great! Just what I'll need for my 200rwkW twin-screwed (in fabrication stage) GZE. 20.5 sounds quite thin. Aren't stock late AW11 discs 22mm?
Cheers, Nick

keri-WMS

25-08-2007, 11:14

Sounds great! Just what I'll need for my 200rwkW twin-screwed (in fabrication stage) GZE. 20.5 sounds quite thin. Aren't stock late AW11 discs 22mm?
Cheers, Nick

AW11b discs are indeed 22mm thick, but the racing rotors have much much better cooling so it's not an issue. The stage 2 kits will be 32mm x 298.5, 310 and 323mm.... and probably with the option of bigger calipers. :driving:

Squizz

28-08-2007, 12:04

From memory the current (MR2 challange?) race car rule don't allow brake upgrades other than pads?

I assume the V6 will be in another series though - I'll let you know as soon as we have any more info.

The first "sensible" alloy bell kit will now probably use 298.5 x 20.5 rotors to save a bit of weight over the 32mm wide version and help people fit daft wheels! rotflmao

There ARE alloys out there that will accept 300mm/310mm kits inside a 15" (proper Team Dynamics for one)..... :driving:

Yup, only pad material upgrades for the MR2C production class. Now using CarboTech XP8's which are stunning! 8O

The V6 Mk1 would be racing in the proposed All Nippon Challenge. The car will be much more modified than our current racer, obviously. I was thinking of 16" rims but a lot will depend on weight, etc.

Look forward to checking out options in the future! ;)

Cheers. :thumbsup:

keri-WMS

29-08-2007, 20:58

Yup, only pad material upgrades for the MR2C production class. Now using CarboTech XP8's which are stunning! 8O

The V6 Mk1 would be racing in the proposed All Nippon Challenge. The car will be much more modified than our current racer, obviously. I was thinking of 16" rims but a lot will depend on weight, etc.

Look forward to checking out options in the future! ;)

Cheers. :thumbsup:

Sounds like it'll be pretty mad! CarboTech offer pads to fit both the WMS Type 20 and bigger Type 35 caliper.... :thumbsup:

Squizz

30-08-2007, 08:25

CarboTech offer pads to fit both the WMS Type 20 and bigger Type 35 caliper.... :thumbsup:

Now that's excellent news! :thumbsup:

keri-WMS

30-08-2007, 09:52

Now that's excellent news! :thumbsup:

Thought it might be! I've gotta try these pads myself at some point.... :jump:

Marksman

30-08-2007, 16:29

Much spondooliage or are they reasonably priced?

Ta,

Owen.

keri-WMS

30-08-2007, 20:42

Much spondooliage or are they reasonably priced?

Ta,

Owen.

Not 100% sure to be honest. However, as a rule the pads for race calipers are cheaper as more get sold.

For example:

- WMS Type 20 caliper EBC Reds are £30.90
- "Toyota" AW11 front EBC Reds are £49.93!!

(NOTE old prices now, see first post for updates - Keri)

Squizz

30-08-2007, 20:51

The CarboTech XP8's are expensive. Over £80 per pair. Luckily, our first bit of sponsorship helped out with the cost. :D

They're SO worth the money, though. Difference is night and day even on standard discs/calipers. We can't even run grooved discs. ;)

Karen's even started out-braking peeps! :o

keri-WMS

08-09-2007, 00:37

As a result of me fitting prototype/evolution ALU brackets to my car, and the arrival of some calipers a last, I can supply one 277mm WMS front kit! I know a lot of you are waiting, so what I suggest to try to be fair is that I let it go to the person on the "waiting list" who wants a kit now (PM me if you want a kit ASAP) and is in the highest position in the queue! I'll leave it for a few days, then pick the highest ranked reply...
:hidesbehi

No-one will lose their position if they haven't got the readies at the moment and more brackets have been ordered anyway. To clarify, there is no rear kit ready yet, or alloy bell versions, so people who wanted those are not here as they each have seperate waiting lists!

By Date:

No. 1 in Queue = randomfactor
No. 2 in Queue = halim.matin
No. 3 in Queue = sooty
No. 4 in Queue = mart1975
No. 5 in Queue = spooner69
No. 6 in Queue = jungle-jim
No. 7 in Queue = mk1gus
No. 8 in Queue = davehkus
No. 9 in Queue = THE LOCKER
No. 10in Queue = Anders Gullstein
No. 11in Queue = Murf
No. 12in Queue = omy

Lastly if you want to be taken off the "interested/keep updated" list just let me know, some of you are here from posts in threads, not PM's.

Ta, Keri

keri-WMS

09-09-2007, 20:12

There's not been much in the way of a response to this available kit!

If I don't have any luck soon on T.B. it'll have to be offered to the ebay version of this waiting list which seems daft, I'd rather a TB'er had it. :shrug:

Shorty

09-09-2007, 22:29

BUY it you looners!!! It`s soo sexy:) I would deffo get it if i had one mk1 more!

Though i haven`t tested it yet:P

keri-WMS

09-09-2007, 22:33

BUY it you looners!!! It`s soo sexy:) I would deffo get it if i had one mk1 more!

Though i haven`t tested it yet:P

:D You make me larf! :thumbsup: rotflmao

Paff

09-09-2007, 23:56

I'd have them but don't have the money at the mo. Plus I think I really ought to use the st205's after buying the wheels I did cos they fit under them :)

keri-WMS

10-09-2007, 09:35

99% sure this kit's now sold guys as only one person has the readies.....

I don't expect it to be too long 'til I get more though.

Murf

10-09-2007, 22:01

Aw, i never got that PM you sent last night till just now!

MRDrift2

05-04-2008, 00:12

Was there any more updates on the mk2 kits????

because im really fancying a whoppin great big disc setup front and back, if not im gonna have to go see the boss down at AP Racing.

Let us know Keri,

cheers fella.
Tom :thumbsup:

keri-WMS

05-04-2008, 19:09

keri-WMS

05-04-2008, 19:32

Actually while I'm posting here, if any existing WMS-kitters are interested I've got some random Mintex pads up for grabs as I'm having a clear-up (Nik saw the current state of the place, builders everywhere!). The pads are supposed to be the exact same format as the EBC stuff but for some reason the pad material is a few mm higher "up" the backing plates, and hang over the 277mm discs slightly (ask Mintex vs EBC...! :shrug: ).

In spite of that they should still be good to use, and I'm shifting them cheap as part of the drive to make room! So, I've got three sets:

Set 1: M1144, new, RRP appears to be £69.65+vat, call it £55.72+vat (20% off)
Set 2: M1144, "bedded in" (light use), after £41.79+vat (40% off)
Set 3: M1155, "bedded in" (light use), RRP=£88.55+vat, call it £53.13+vat (40% off)

First to post "bagsied set x" = first served! :jump:

nik

05-04-2008, 22:43

some billy bargains there our kez..

keri-WMS

10-04-2008, 21:24

Right lads, I know a lot of you have been waiting for ages for WMS AW11 goodies, and I apologise. :blush:

This post is to gauge interest in a possible fix.... :jump:

To try and solve this situation we've worked out a deal with the CNC machining place to create a new "jump the queue" order. The way it would work is we would buy a time-slot on one particular machine about a month in advance, paid for in advance. This gives us priority over other jobs they have, gets a batch of calipers (and threaded inserts for the brackets) made to sort some people on the waiting list out and will also lower costs slightly which I will be able to pass on as a one-off deal (discount % to be confirmed).

So in effect this would be very like a group-buy, with a 75% (approx) deposit needed in advance from everyone who wants in. Delivery time from date I take the deposits would be about 1 month (machine time paid in advance period) plus another month to cover the actual machining/anodising/shipping to me/delivery to you. The remaining 25% balance would only need to be settled when I have the goods in hand and ready to go out the door.

Of course we'd need to know numbers to know what size time-slot to book!

We have got 10pr of new-style CNC brackets ready on the shelf (one person here has even had a sneak peek, you know who you are!!!), discs and brake lines are normally 2-day delivery to us, we just need the calipers and the threaded inserts for the brackets.

We're looking for about 3-6 people, more than 10 is fine as extra brackets can be added to the machine-time.

This won't hurt the existing waiting list as it's an extra, in fact there might be extra calipers done at the same time if things go well!

So....to gauge interest, hands-up who (provisionally) wants in?

TheGasMan

11-04-2008, 19:19

keri-WMS

12-04-2008, 11:40

Im definately up for it, its just my car goes in for a 3S-GTE in about a month and I need my brakes sorting for then really, dont want to buy some ST185 calipers and then have to upgrade again if you know what I mean.. sorry to sound impatient :confused:

I'm afraid my hands are tied on this, that's why I'm giving you guys more detailed info than most people would!

I'd hope to cut the times if possible, but the main thing would be the "start date" and there's been no more interest yet and without that the "queue jump" can't happen at all. :cry:

nik

28-05-2008, 13:16

eventually fitted WMS' 4 pot front clappers and bedded in the red pads..and can now report that the stopping power is absolutely awesome..
incredibly easy fit (of course) and feel much more confident approaching t-junctions/roundabouts etc..
excellent product, thanks mate..:thumbsup:

keri-WMS

28-05-2008, 17:13

OlberJ

28-05-2008, 19:02

You had the ST165's before Nik?

THAT much better than before?

nik

29-05-2008, 09:51

the actual braking 'feel' is similar, but i only had bog standard pads on my twin pots..
with these clappers and pads if i stamp on the pedal my eyes nearly fall out of my face..
dont get me wrong the st165 twin pots are a vast improvement over stock brakes but these WMS brakes take it a stage further..

keri-WMS

01-11-2008, 12:36

Right, I'm sorry for the ridiculous delay, but I've got some stock at last!

There is a waiting list, so anyone who's contacted me earlier and still wants a kit (out of this batch) please PM me ASAP to confirm your order. Here's the new bracket design:

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/IMG_8064b-web.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/IMG_8065web.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/IMG_8066web.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/IMG_8067web.jpg

The exact stock situation looks like this:
Sexy new-style 6061 T6 clear-anodised CNC aluminium brackets with 431 stainless steel threaded inserts (lighter than steel brackets and with the inserts FAR stronger and more durable threads than an all-aluminium bracket would have) = 10 sets

AW11 tweaked version of the WMS T20 6061 T6 Aluminium caliper with custom 1.25/1.25" pistons (to give a firmer pedal on the standard m/cyl) = 10 sets.

Discs = 1pr arriving today, more are on order with the mfr - I normally buy these in as I need them so that's normal, same with EBC pads and Earls lines.

So I've got enough to probably cover the waiting list as people often drop out, plus one kit to go out the door ASAP to anyone who wants it (but with being on the list being a tie-beaker).

Other notes about the new brackets are that the inserts are held with thread-lock which is oil-proof etc and rated to 150/175 deg-C. I also tried to destroy one of the smaller M10 inserts on a test bracket by over-torquing and the bolt stretched first...at 95-100FtLb ish! rotflmao

(edited to remove old prices, see first post for updates - Keri)

Before anyone asks, there's nothing for the back yet other than the EBC reds we can supply, and bit bigger kits yet...but both are in the pipeline and things should happen more quickly now.

nik

01-11-2008, 14:52

would love the brackets to replace those steel ones i have chap..:thumbsup:

i love these brakes..every mk1 should have them..!

loadswine

01-11-2008, 19:07

I wonder if a version of these will eventually be available for the Mk3.
They look superb.

keri-WMS

01-11-2008, 19:43

I wonder if a version of these will eventually be available for the Mk3.
They look superb.

I've got Mk3 front uprights sitting on my bench... ;-)

(I can't remember if I've got rear ones though.)

superchargedsam

01-11-2008, 22:06

amazing breaks

biteme

01-11-2008, 22:23

amazing breaks

You selling holidays?

BRAKES mate. BRAKES.

superchargedsam

01-11-2008, 22:24

You selling holidays?

BRAKES mate. BRAKES.

no but thought u had fucked off on one ya cheeky barsteward!

biteme

01-11-2008, 22:26

no but thought u had fucked off on one ya cheeky barsteward!

I'm in Norway, working :)

superchargedsam

01-11-2008, 22:28

yeah i worked there once, took me 6 hours to get from one end of the cognac cabinet to the other, its a harsh life on expenses!

biteme

01-11-2008, 22:30

lol it's my own money really!!

rattymr2

02-11-2008, 07:01

I'm in Norway, wanking :)

too much information!

loadswine

02-11-2008, 11:21

I've got Mk3 front uprights sitting on my bench... ;-)

(I can't remember if I've got rear ones though.)

Aha! I will watch this space then. :thumbsup:

keri-WMS

08-11-2008, 12:22

:woods:

Well I've not got any takers at all, I wonder if it a "credit crunch" thing, bad timing (xmas soon), people not getting PMs (?) or just too big a delay on my part. Odd though as there was a long list of people waiting for updates! [:(

Anyway, the brackets will remain in stock, but at this rate the calipers will have to start to go out the door to the BMW lot (this 1.25" piston caliper was a custom job for the AW11 and E30 3-series!). :poke2:

If you are still interested please let me know, or if you are NOT interested any more also let me know so other people can have "your" kit.

Cheers!

keri-WMS

24-11-2008, 00:44

One other thing I forgot to mention is that if you've already got the ST185 discs you can use them with the WMS setup (the bolts have to be 1mm-ish longer and there are caliper spacers needed to match the ST185 disc's offset).

This works out like:

(edited to remove old prices, see first post for updates - Keri)

Lee

24-11-2008, 10:29

Please, please please make some for the Mk2!

Even if it's just calipers to replace the poorly engineered efforts on the front to work with stock discs. If you did them for a similar price as the Mk1's I WILL buy a set as I'd rather pay the extra than spend another £100 per caliper that has already been refurbed once or twice and lasts a few years if you're lucky :)

keri-WMS

11-12-2008, 21:41

I've found a classic trend among the BMW lot as they have been busily buying their kits: Bloke orders kit, female details appear on the PayPal etc! The jammy bu--ers appear to be asking for.....and getting, brakes for christmas from their other halves!!!! rotflmao

As a random side note, here are the beemer brackets - for any fellow lovers of "shiney things":

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/WMS-800x600-4P0251-f.jpg

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/WMS-800x600-4P0251-g.jpg

MRV6

11-12-2008, 23:32

Yes mate any developments on mk2 brakes?

biteme

12-12-2008, 00:41

Yes mate any developments on mk2 brakes?

*changes phone number*

keri-WMS

12-12-2008, 11:24

lol, ok - how many people would want mk2 stuff from a first batch? (a few months off)

Goldy

12-12-2008, 13:20

well I deffo would have 2 years ago!

keri-WMS

12-12-2008, 13:53

well I deffo would have 2 years ago!

I know - I've had the bracket designed for ages but other things/kits kept getting in the way. If there are enough people who want one straight away I can justify getting a Mk2 batch done instead of re-stocking know designs.

MRV6

12-12-2008, 21:48

*changes phone number*

Give me your new number mate. I need to talk to you for the next 3 1/2 years about brakes. You know it makes sense;)

MRV6

12-12-2008, 21:49

I know - I've had the bracket designed for ages but other things/kits kept getting in the way. If there are enough people who want one straight away I can justify getting a Mk2 batch done instead of re-stocking know designs.

Give us a price mate, I'll see if I can afford a set in the new year.

keri-WMS

12-12-2008, 22:22

The price depends mainly on the spec! The Mk2 is a bigger/heavier and (normally!) more powerful car so it has a case for getting 300mm or 330mm rotors on bells, but that adds a lot to the cost - about an extra £250 over solid iron discs.

Would Mk2 people rather go for a £400/£450ish one-peice kit or £650/700 for a rotor/bells kit? (the one-peice discs can still be about the same size but of course heavier).

The larger Type 35 caliper would help but also adds £75 ish over the Type 20.

MRV6

15-12-2008, 00:21

That sounds reasonable mate. Depending on how things go next year I might be up for a set. Can you do anything on a group buy?

keri-WMS

15-12-2008, 07:27

That sounds reasonable mate. Depending on how things go next year I might be up for a set. Can you do anything on a group buy?

Group buys tend to be a pain in the a---, and can also cause people to fall out with each other if someone backs out!

So I just give TB members the 5% discount anyway... :driving:

Poohbear

15-12-2008, 08:44

keri-WMS

15-12-2008, 09:08

This is the first time I have really looked at this so I haven't read the whole thread...these prices I'm assuming are just for a front set??

Bob

Yup (estimated in the case of the Mk2)! I'll be doing rear kits for both cars as well, especially as they are mid engined...

welsha

15-12-2008, 13:55

last time I looked at those calipers they had 4 bleed valves? That's a major pain no? If someone could make brackets to fit other calipers to the mk2 we'd be onto a winner

keri-WMS

15-12-2008, 17:28

last time I looked at those calipers they had 4 bleed valves? That's a major pain no? If someone could make brackets to fit other calipers to the mk2 we'd be onto a winner

It's not a pain in the slightest! It makes it easier to bleed air out of the top two valves (the bubbles don't get to hide on the part of the caliper with no bleed valve), and the bottom two are not really used unless you are changing the fluid and want to get any stale fluid out of the bottom of the calipers.

welsha

15-12-2008, 18:51

shows you how much I know. I'd certainly fit these to the mk2 cause as Lee says once the std units go it's a never ending cycle of fixing them. However, need to be a defo on price and time scale. Seen to many of these things die a death

Diesel Meister

03-03-2009, 14:39

Looking at going brutal on my Mk1a and am interested in these. I've only had a quick read through some of the thread so apologise if I'm covering anything that's already been answered recently.

Would I be safe on some 7x15in Rotas or similar with the 277mm kit?

16s for anything larger than this?

What about options for the rear?

What's the current lead time on a kit?

Perversely, I was thinking about some of these for my E30 as well - first saw them on the zone lol

OlberJ

03-03-2009, 14:42

Would I be safe on some 7x15in Rotas

That's a question right there! Have you seen the pics?

Diesel Meister

03-03-2009, 14:56

Pics of the kit? I've seen the ones of Keri's Mk1 but I thought he was on 16s. They look big even behind those. Kit look nice though and I've been for a ride in an E30 touring equipped with the WMS 280mm kit and it seemed to slow up just fine (it also had a 220bhp 24v engine). I'd imagine the Mk1 would explode the seatbelt inertia reels due to low weight :)

I can't decide whether I was to try and keep to smallish wheels. I'm more interest in function following form (i.e. wheels big enough to accommodate whatever brakes are necessary and to give enough traction for the performance of the car with a 1MZ). So it may be be 16s with 300mm plus front brakes...

No idea what should go on the rear though.

keri-WMS

03-03-2009, 15:56

Looking at going brutal on my Mk1a and am interested in these. I've only had a quick read through some of the thread so apologise if I'm covering anything that's already been answered recently.

No problem! I should do an FAQ really....

Would I be safe on some 7x15in Rotas or similar with the 277mm kit?

280mm is as big as most 15's can take, so you should be ok, as long as the shape of the wheel behind the spokes is sensible...

16s for anything larger than this?

Yup!

What about options for the rear?

Working on it, (top secret, good value and MOT-passing!).

What's the current lead time on a kit?

I've got FOUR calipers left and one pair are semi-reserved for an E30. If you're quick you should just be able to get a kit now if you want! (20x AW11 brackets and 4x discs on the shelf, the other 16x calipers all went to E30's...).

Perversely, I was thinking about some of these for my E30 as well - first saw them on the zone lol

Ahhh! The E30 and the AW11 are the ONLY cars that take the 1.25" spec WMS Type 20 caliper - as both have rather soft pedals! Not sure which is the most perverse, here or the zone.....? (probably here, the "wrongest" conversations are here for sure!) So who's E30 have you been playing with? Wouldn't be a black touring that's been magazine featured by any chance....?

Going forward, I am going to do 298.5mm kits for both the E30 and the AW11 ASAP, and the calipers can be re-used. But I have to say the E30 lads are buying a LOT more gear than the AW11 guys, which is odd as interest WAS about even?!?!? :confused:

Lee

03-03-2009, 16:44

Make a Mk2 kit and see that reversed :thumbsup:

OlberJ

03-03-2009, 17:30

Pics of the kit?.

Nooooo, the kit is awesome.

I mean the pics of wrecked Rota wheels :freak3: Scary stuff.

keri-WMS

03-03-2009, 21:36

Make a Mk2 kit and see that reversed :thumbsup:

Yup....I've taken note, don't you worry! If I drove a Mk2 it would have been first to be developed as well...

By the way, the rear "top secret" MOT passing kit will be for the Mk2 as well. :thumbsup:

Diesel Meister

03-03-2009, 23:03

keri - many thanks! I may not need them right away as I'm still deciding what size to go for, plus there's the small matter of Paul's waiting list. But I am fairly set on bigger brakes and these and a couple of sets of brembos are all I've experienced by way of after-market upgrades (on E30 and E36 BMWs). And yes I nearly bought ste's tourer but a new job plus house move meant I had a full plate then. Plus I really wanted an S50 powered E30.... ;) Ol - (sorry no return key on the gf's pikey-spec taplop lol ) I've seen the photos you mention but never known anyone personally that's had issues, even with serious track / auto-x use.. I'm not set on the make, I just want lightweight wheels in an inoffensive design that fit over the brakes really. I don't see how rotas could be much worse than any other "knock-offs" but then I realise that you generally get what you pay for. I'm open to suggestions on the hoop front, new or used, so recommend away!

keri-WMS

04-03-2009, 13:31

keri - many thanks! I may not need them right away as I'm still deciding what size to go for, plus there's the small matter of Paul's waiting list. But I am fairly set on bigger brakes and these and a couple of sets of brembos are all I've experienced by way of after-market upgrades (on E30 and E36 BMWs). And yes I nearly bought ste's tourer but a new job plus house move meant I had a full plate then. Plus I really wanted an S50 powered E30.... ;)

Ste's E30 Touring: just so people know what I'm on about (engine has been "BMW Brutalised"). I love the wheels....other than they hide my brakes! rotflmao

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/_DOM1350.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/_DOM1566.jpg

Diesel Meister

04-03-2009, 15:18

Mean as fup. Part of me definitely regrets not buying it - the quality of workmanship throughout was excellent. I just wanted my 24v E30 to be even more brutal. Oh well, I'll stik with my Mk1a and my 325i Sport for now then.

Keri - here's a pic that shows off your wares (a little!):

http://www.e3024v.com/images/wms_on.jpg

http://www.e3024v.com/images/hr_adaptors.jpg

keri-WMS

05-03-2009, 13:15

Just an update....we're down to two kits, and both are now "reserved pending payment". However we will be getting more calipers in as a matter of urgency so watch this space!

welsha

26-04-2009, 19:11

any sign of the mk2 kit or will it never happen?

keri-WMS

26-04-2009, 20:28

Not yet but it will happen - I've invested time and money in it!

welsha

26-04-2009, 23:16

any timescales as I think my fronts have finally died though I won't know for sure until I get the darned things off again - cheers

Oh, and do the calipers have dust shields on them?

keri-WMS

27-04-2009, 15:55

any timescales as I think my fronts have finally died though I won't know for sure until I get the darned things off again - cheers

Oh, and do the calipers have dust shields on them?

No timescale other than "ASAP" I'm afraid...

The calipers don't have external dust boots, but I offer a 12-month free replacement guarantee on the seals and no-one has ever taken me up on it. In fact I don't think I've EVER sold a set of seals other than "as spares" with new calipers... :thumbsup:

Tim Higgott

09-05-2009, 01:17

Hi Keri.

Any news on these kits.

Thanks

welsh_kroozer

09-05-2009, 02:38

i second this.. i really want a set for my mk2

Tim Higgott

09-05-2009, 09:38

Need them for a mk1

keri-WMS

09-05-2009, 10:21

Need them for a mk1

PM on it's way very soon, 1/2hr or so...

Diesel Meister

19-05-2009, 15:58

keri-WMS

20-05-2009, 16:04

Ok, I'm defo up for a BBK. I can't make head nor tail of the Wilwood site for comparison, so WMS gets to bid first!

Interested in a kit with hoses and pads etc. - could you drop me a pm with an all in price for the ~300mm kit?

Thanks!

I'm afraid that the 300mm AW11 kit isn't available yet...shall I let you know when it is? I don't have a timescale I'm afraid other than "ASAP" as I want to fit them to my AW11! [:(

Diesel Meister

21-05-2009, 10:29

Ok :)

In the meantime I may need to get the 277mm kit..... Any in stock atm?

keri-WMS

21-05-2009, 15:38

Ok :)

In the meantime I may need to get the 277mm kit..... Any in stock atm?
Just waiting for the last one to go out the door I'm afraid... There is a heap of brackets but no calipers. That said I ordered more calipers weeks ago so they shouldn't take long.

The disc I normally use appears to now be unavailable as well, so future kits might all use the slightly shallower ST185 disc - at least being more common it's cheaper!

Gary Symons

21-05-2009, 15:45

Do you have any plans to do anything for the MK3? I have to say that the standard brakes are very good but bigger is better :shades:

keri-WMS

21-05-2009, 16:01

Do you have any plans to do anything for the MK3? I have to say that the standard brakes are very good but bigger is better :shades:
Yup! I've got Mk3 front suspension to work on and there is definately demand... (as well as the Mk2 of course)

pistol pete

21-05-2009, 19:39

i am currently saving for a set of these

hopefully will afford it in a couple of months

welsha

21-05-2009, 23:55

can you make the centre ring to enable the mazda rx8 front 323mm dia disc fit the rear hub of the mk2?

keri-WMS

22-05-2009, 08:20

i am currently saving for a set of these

hopefully will afford it in a couple of months

Cool!

can you make the centre ring to enable the mazda rx8 front 323mm dia disc fit the rear hub of the mk2?

'fraid not... But the plan is to do a 323mm or 330mm front and rear SW20 kit which will have a very cheap MOT-able handbrake and retain the correct front/rear bias....

Can't say more yet though... :whistle:

Paul Woods

22-05-2009, 17:35

Just seen the WMS front aw11 kit today for the first time, proper quality brakes :thumbsup:

keri-WMS

22-05-2009, 22:26

Just seen the WMS front aw11 kit today for the first time, proper quality brakes :thumbsup:
Cheers chap, glad you like 'em!

fredhoon

25-05-2009, 15:27

keri-WMS

25-05-2009, 16:38

Just a heads up, following on from our PM's, a few others in Australia have expressed interest in both AW11 and SW20 F&R kits (with the spot calliper).

When you've got the 2-piece rotor kits finalised for the AW11 and SW20 i'll firm up some numbers (assuming it's not in another 2.5yrs and people have sourced something else). So far we have interest in the following...

AW11
300mm bell, 4pot + 2pot & spot callipers, mounting kit
280mm bell, 4pot + 2pot & spot callipers, mounting kit (for myself)

SW20
330mm bell, 4pot + 2pot & spot callipers, mounting kit

As previously discussed we will source a Willwood rotor locally to save on shipping weight. Brake lines will probably be sourced locally, unless you can make them to spec to pass our ADR's. Pads, i'm not fussed but we can look at that when the time comes.

At this stage you would have a definite 2x AW11 kits, and a couple of possibles for the AW11 & SW20.

Have you got any further info including piston area for the 4pot front calliper that you currently use? Regarding the dust boot issue from a few pages back - is it possible to knock some cheap sacrificial dust boots for the callipers, as we need them for an initial Dept of Transport compliance inspection.

I'll get them ready in less than 2.5 years, that's for sure! :rasp:

I'm not sure about the brake lines and piston seals, the trouble is the kits are really intended for race use. I don't think I can really go supplying anything that LOOKS like it passes the regs, but actually doesn't - that's dodgey. What I CAN do is give you a few ideas, and help you with some dimensions (and limited drawings), but that's about it I'm afraid. Can you supply me with the regulations documents etc?

Pistons for the AW11 WMS caliper were 1.38" originally, but I changed them to 1.25" to get a nicer pedal and shift the bias very slightly back to the rear. The calipers are available with 1.25/1.25, 1.38/1.38 and 1.62/1.75 staggered, other sizes as custom (10x or 20x batches normally)!

fredhoon

25-05-2009, 22:13

I'm not sure about the brake lines and piston seals, the trouble is the kits are really intended for race use. I don't think I can really go supplying anything that LOOKS like it passes the regs, but actually doesn't - that's dodgey. What I CAN do is give you a few ideas, and help you with some dimensions (and limited drawings), but that's about it I'm afraid. Can you supply me with the regulations documents etc?

I haven't read the regs myself as they have recently changed and thus don't know the specifics. I do know that brake lines need to have an exterior plastic sleeve (+ more, below), brakes must have dust boots and rear callipers must have a mechanical hand brake. I've got a copy of the regs on order and will need to speak to the engineer complying the installed product so see what he will allow.

Brake lines...

there are two main requirements for ADR compliance - the plastic sleeve is one of them, but they must also have a soft plastic collar where the braided hose meets the fitting, rather than a stiff collar. The ADRs require that the whole assembly pases what they call a "whip test", and hard collars can cut into the hose and damage it.

keri-WMS

25-05-2009, 23:03

I haven't read the regs myself as they have recently changed and thus don't know the specifics. I do know that brake lines need to have an exterior plastic sleeve (+ more, below), brakes must have dust boots and rear callipers must have a mechanical hand brake. I've got a copy of the regs on order and will need to speak to the engineer complying the installed product so see what he will allow.

Brake lines...

I thiiiink the lines are possible, in that the parts are available from Earls as far as I know. The dust boots are the odd one, the wording of the regs might help.

Diesel Meister

22-06-2009, 16:34

Keri - Any chance these might be in (277mm kit for AW11) in the next month or two?

Cheers,

D

keri-WMS

22-06-2009, 17:18

Keri - Any chance these might be in (277mm kit for AW11) in the next month or two?

Cheers,

D

Should be - I've got brackets on the shelf, and was told last week that the calipers should be ready to ship to me this week.

The new kits might have the ST185 277mm disc instead of the Camry 277mm disc, unless I can find a new trade supplier for the Camry ones. - TBC

Diesel Meister

22-06-2009, 17:23

Good stuff - update the thread when they arrive?

keri-WMS

22-06-2009, 18:14

Good stuff - update the thread when they arrive?
Yup, will do!

craig87

22-06-2009, 20:57

Keri, If you do go with the st185 celica disks will these kits possibly fit a celica st182 which i believe has the same brakes as st185 anyway? And if you do will these fit under 15" rims?

Thanks

keri-WMS

22-06-2009, 22:54

Keri, If you do go with the st185 celica disks will these kits possibly fit a celica st182 which i believe has the same brakes as st185 anyway? And if you do will these fit under 15" rims?

Thanks
They should do - there's a slight radial shift between the mounting positions of the caliper on the ST185 vs the AW11... should be sortable though.

Most 15's go over 280mm WMS kits ok!

craig87

23-06-2009, 19:32

keri-WMS

24-06-2009, 10:34

ooh if so im very interested in these!!

By radial shift how would this be suitable?

standard disks are 277mm anyway with the celica calipers, do you have a measurement with calipers on the disks to see if i can measure wether they will fit?

What I've found is that for some reason the lugs on the ST185 STRUT are 2.5mm shorter than the AW11. So if you fit ST185 calipers and discs to an AW11 you get 2.5mm of pad overhanging the disc, not enough to be a real issue but worth remembering.

The flip side is that fitting the WMS 277mm kit to a ST185 is that the pads will sit 2.5mm low on the disc, again not a biggie but you'd need to check the inside of the caliper clears the O.D. of the rotor, ideally we should turn the rotor down to 272mm in this case.

Hope that makes sense!

Diesel Meister

10-07-2009, 23:34

keri-WMS

11-07-2009, 12:40

Hey Keri

Not sure if the prices are the same as in the first post but I'll guess I'm looking at around £480 delivered for the AW11 277mm kit with braided lines and Red Stuff pads?

Let me know if I'm way off.

Cheers,

D
Those are pretty old prices I'm afraid (2006), when I know the exact new ones I'll update them!

The prices from the last batch in 2008 (which will probably change slightly, TBC) were:

(edited to remove old prices, see first post for updates - Keri)

A couple of other points are that:
- VAT is 2.5% cheaper at the moment so the total is less this year!
- I may need to change to the ST185 disc which is cheaper and more compatible with other AW11 upgrades....but about 2mm closer to the inside of the wheel. Most people have discontinued the Camry disc annoyingly.

Diesel Meister

11-07-2009, 13:53

keri-WMS

11-07-2009, 14:47

Ok so more like £566 delivered (happy to pay by BACS)?

My main concern is the fitment as this will determine what wheels (make, size) I go for. Part of me still wants to keep to 15in but I've no idea of the designs that will fit in that size, or 16in for that matter.
I work it out at (edited to remove old prices, see first post for updates - Keri), reds, lines and free UK (via BACS) shipping......based on last year's prices though, so TBC. :-)

The 277mm kit fits inside "sensible" 15's (deep-dished alloys and 4-pots never mix well), for instance you should be able to run the Mk3 15's (I'll need to check that's still the case if I move to the ST185 disc, worst case is 2mm ish wheel spacers).

Here's the 15":
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk159/keri-wms/WMS-800x600-4P0411-f-1.jpg

Diesel Meister

11-07-2009, 18:05

Heh - I rounded up as I assumed there'd be some fluctuation depended on parts etc.

Ok, cheers that's helpful. I guess my possition is less than ideal as I'd rather have some custom wheels made up but the need to get the car back on the road means I'll be using stand ins to start (7in wide in front, 8in wide at the rear). Paul has advised 16s so I'm inclined to follow his suggestion, although in an ideal world I'd like as close to stock looking as possible on that front (in terms of size at least). Still, not sure that 15x8in tyres are all that easy to come by lol

keri-WMS

11-07-2009, 18:10

Diesel Meister

11-07-2009, 18:30

Cool. I'm betting that the Mk3 wheels are 7in wide as opposed to 8 though... might need at least 8in on the rear with 270bhp-odd lol

Shadeh

12-07-2009, 00:47

So its around 550 for the brakes and discs for mk1? I may consider this as I am having a turbo engine put in my mk1

Diesel Meister

12-07-2009, 11:41

Well, I've experienced the retardation of this kit in a much heavier car and was impressed :thumbsup:

grash2

07-08-2009, 11:40

keri-WMS

07-08-2009, 13:05

hey keri

The 560 price is for front and rear setup or just front?
btw can you work out a delivery to Greece? i am sure it is going to be very expensive, due to rotors weight mostly, i can source the st185 discs here quite cheap so what i am after is front and rear calipers, and brackets (full front rear kit without the rotors)

thanks

Hi! The prices are to be confirmed, but they are for the front only...

Postage to greece would be about £40 for aprox 20kg (full kit) and about £35 for aprox 7kg (kit with no discs)...as a rough guide.

Cheers!

Diesel Meister

07-08-2009, 23:43

<--- still very interested :)

Let me know when you're stocked so we can do a deal. That way I can cross one more thing off the shopping list!

keri-WMS

08-08-2009, 10:46

Will do - apparently the delay is now FedEx....who I am told have had the shipment for about two weeks!

Diesel Meister

08-08-2009, 12:46

Okies. Dibs on one kit then!

keri-WMS

28-08-2009, 17:47

Right chaps, bit of an update!!!

I've got 5pr of 1.25" piston calipers, and 5pr of 1.38" piston calipers....at last. (PENDING QUALITY/REVISION INSPECTION)

I've got brackets coming out of my ears, one pair of ST185 discs (easy to get more), but no Camry discs (not so easy to get more right now, £1000 minimum quantity basically plus a 8-week lead time as they are discontinued/rare).

Several people have got kits reserved, I'll be in touch by PM and of course they get first dibs! I'll be offering the ST185 version only at this point, until I get hold of the Camry discs again.

By the way, they are all backward / forward compatible between the deep/flat versions on the same brackets as long as the bolts are corrected for the 2.5mm shift.

Please see post 1 for all prices / discounts / shipping etc!

Shadeh

28-08-2009, 23:38

How much are calipers just for the back keri or do you only sell a full kit?

keri-WMS

29-08-2009, 12:04

How much are calipers just for the back keri or do you only sell a full kit?
I don't have a rear-fitting kit as such, but I can supply the calipers on their own. The front brackets might work ok on the back as well but you'll need a handbrake unless it's a race/track car with a line-lock (or chocks!).

DJJAW11

29-08-2009, 13:00

How much for just the brackets and calipers?

David

This is the AW11 Mk1 (and Mk1.5!!! :thumbsup: ) kit, it works with the OEM spec master cylinder, and goes under 15's INCLUDING THE MK3 WHEELS, discs are 277mm x 25mm...

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/4416/wms800x6004p0411a9rr.jpg

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/3524/wms800x6004p0411d0gl.jpg

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/1507/wms800x6004p0411e5wt.jpg

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/3523/wms800x6004p0411b8uw.jpg

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/4781/wms800x6004p0411c5ka.jpg

EDIT (updated prices Oct 06) -----

£331.90+vat for the kit
£42.46+vat for Earls braided lines
£48+vat to upgrade to grooved discs
EBC pads to fit are £25.07+vat for greens, £30.90+vat for reds
£10+vat UK zone 1 shipping! Brutalville Bank gets a donation with every kit as well. :mrgreen:

Brutal members get a 5% discount, 7.5% if you can get a group buy going...?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the pipeline:

310/298.5mm x 32mm front kit on ally bells.
298.5mm REAR kit on ally bells! :cool:

Fire away with any questions......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also we can do ST185 discs (not kept in stock normally though), 277mm x 25mm (I've never seen any 277x28 ones...) ST185 discs, redrilled to fit the 4x100 AW11 PCD.

Cost is £42.14+vat / pr plus £10+vat for "UK zone 1" shipping (up to 30kg per box) = £61.26 all inclusive, delivered. The "TB Discount" in this case is I'm not charging anything for drilling the extra holes!!!

I should point out that in my personal opinion the ST185 - on AW11 conversion isn't a 100% perfect fit due to the slight variation in the mounting points on the MR2 v Celica struts, but it's "ok" for most people. Also remember all discs have a small 45' shamfer round the edge. (covered here: http://forums.twobrutal.com/showthread.php?t=5146&page=5 )

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We also offer some handy EBC pads with a 10% TB discount:

ST185 front Greenstuff (p/number TBC) = £65.72+vat/set with 10% TB discount = £59.15+vat
ST185 front Redstuff = £75.84+vat/set with 10% TB discount = £68.26+vat
AW11 front Greenstuff = £43.28+vat/set with 10% TB discount = £38.95+vat
AW11 front Redstuff (p/number TBC) = £49.93+vat/set with 10% TB discount = £44.94+vat
AW11 rear Greenstuff = £35.35+vat/set with 10% TB discount = £31.82+vat
AW11 rear Redstuff (p/number TBC) = £42.23+vat/set with 10% TB discount = £38.01+vat
SW20 rear Greenstuff (p/number TBC) = £35.35+vat/set with 10% TB discount = £31.82+vat
SW20 rear Redstuff (p/number TBC) = £42.23+vat/set with 10% TB discount = £38.01+vat

Keri

keri-WMS

29-08-2009, 14:43

How much for just the brackets and calipers?

David

Hi David, I was about to email you now I've finally got some stock!

Calipers/brackets/inserts and bolts are ....(see post 1 for new prices)!

I'll drop you an email as well...

Keri

keri-WMS

06-09-2009, 12:49

On a random note, one of the "WMS Sponsored" TVR racers can be seen racing on TV! For those who stay up LATE to watch Race and Rally UK "motorsport-monday" on (CH4 or 5?) it's Dave Chant in the Class 3 Red Tasmin. Please note that the class A and class B cars are all going to be faster as they have MUCH more power, there are only two other class C cars in each race.

Here's a link to see the previous shows, click on the TVR Challenge to see Dave in the wars! http://www.amgtv.co.uk/webtv2.shtml - (...did having WMS brakes helped him avoid that big shunt though...??) :eek:

And yes, that girl who races a V8 TVR IS called Christina Totty! 8O 8O 8O

Here's Dave in action, calm and restrained.....!
http://www.tvrmonster.co.uk/gallery/twentyfive/Smokin.jpg

fredhoon

21-11-2009, 07:46

Any progress on a rear kit and/or spot calliper for a mechanical handbrake?

keri-WMS

21-11-2009, 11:27

Any progress on a rear kit and/or spot calliper for a mechanical handbrake?
Yes, I'm working to get prototypes of several things made but am struggling with costs etc.

I am looking to protoype, test and launch:

- Mk1 F+R 273mm/280mm rotors on alloy bells, front calipers are "current", rear details TBC (with handbrake)

- Mk3 F+R 273mm/280mm rotors on alloy bells, front WMS calipers, rear details TBC (with handbrake)

plus

- Mk2 F+R 300mm or 323mm rotors on alloy bells, front WMS calipers, rear details TBC (with handbrake)

The REAL problem I have is that I can't take pre-orders on the bells as they are a new design that needs testing, but can't really be made in small batches so it's a real "all or nothing" situation for me!

But it's also the number one priority, I am going to try and offer everything brakes for all MR2's at the expense of other makes/models!

Gary Symons

21-11-2009, 14:40

Mk3 F+R 273mm/280mm rotors on alloy bells, front WMS calipers, rear details TBC (with handbrake)

Yes please :thumbsup:

keri-WMS

21-11-2009, 17:29

Yes please :thumbsup:
It's official, pending delivery of a Mk3 rear suspension quarter I just bought (£owwwww) I'll have Mk1 F+R, Mk2 F+R and Mk3 F+R suspension to test on!

fredhoon

21-11-2009, 22:09

Excellent news, I'll be patient.

Monkeyra

23-11-2009, 16:08

Another vote for the MK2 here. I'd be after a set myself :)

keri-WMS

23-11-2009, 17:51

Ok then, could we guage some interest please (bearing in mind to go alloy bells, rear and handbrake we might be talking 3x the cost of the current WMS front kit...VERY roughly...) so I know what I'm getting myself into?
:tempted:

AW11 F + R + handbrake Alloy Bell kits, 280mm-ish (compatible with existing WMS kits as an upgrade by the way!), "interested" in no order:
1 - Me!
2 - Fredhoon gang?
3 - Jim-SR?
4 - ?

SW20 F + R + handbrake Alloy Bell kits, 300mm-ish, "interested" in no order:
1 - Monkeyra
2 - Fredhoon gang?
3 - welsha?
4 - welsh_kroozer?
5 - Lee???
6 - MRV6?

ZW30 F + R + handbrake Alloy Bell kits, 280mm-ish, "interested" in no order:
1 - Gary Symons
2 - ?
3 - ?
4 - ?

* At this point I have to apologize to people who have been waiting for ever, esp the Mk2 lads...

PaulM

23-11-2009, 18:46

Interested on the Mk3

keri-WMS

23-11-2009, 18:56

Interested on the Mk3

Cool!

AW11 F + R + handbrake Alloy Bell kits, 280mm-ish (compatible with existing WMS kits as an upgrade by the way!), "interested" in no order:
1 - Me!
2 - Fredhoon gang?
3 - Jim-SR?
4 - ?

SW20 F + R + handbrake Alloy Bell kits, 300mm-ish, "interested" in no order:
1 - Monkeyra
2 - Fredhoon gang?
3 - welsh_kroozer?
4 - Lee???
5 - MRV6?

ZW30 F + R + handbrake Alloy Bell kits, 280mm-ish, "interested" in no order:
1 - Gary Symons
2 - PaulM
3 - ?
4 - ?

Monkeyra

23-11-2009, 21:32

Mk2 prices, would ballpark be circa £1k? Just to give me an idea of whether to buy a rollcage from Rogue before christmas (early present to myself) or carry on saving for a set of brakes!

keri-WMS

23-11-2009, 23:07

Mk2 prices, would ballpark be circa £1k? Just to give me an idea of whether to buy a rollcage from Rogue before christmas (early present to myself) or carry on saving for a set of brakes!

In very rough terms £1-1.5k.....but the idea is to have two rear caliper options on the bell+rotor, the 22V Toyota caliper (saving cash) and a 2-pot + handbrake caliper.

There will with luck also be one-peice production-style discs as a lower cost option as well, I'll try to make the whole system of kits as adaptable as possible.

Monkeyra

24-11-2009, 06:47

I think (for me anyway) my limit price wise will be 1k. I really can't justify spending 1.5k on a some brakes for a 20yr old car :) It's just getting a bit too expensive!

keri-WMS

24-11-2009, 11:09

I think (for me anyway) my limit price wise will be 1k. I really can't justify spending 1.5k on a some brakes for a 20yr old car :) It's just getting a bit too expensive!
With luck that's where the rear kit that re-uses the 22v caliper should help - I should be able to give more accurate price estimates soon!

keri-WMS

25-11-2009, 19:45

I've been going over this in great depth (sitting with 6 hubs!) and there are a lot of REALLY annoying things Toyota have done just to make my life difficult!

Anyway the plan is to get on with (phase 1):

Mk1 alloy bells with 280mm rotors front and rear, existing WMS kit 4-pot front caliper/bracket, "big disc carrier" to take 22V caliper on the rear.

Mk2 vented 300mm normal discs front and rear, 4-pot front caliper/bracket, "big disc carrier" to take 22V caliper on the rear.

Mk3 alloy bells with 280mm rotors front and rear, 4-pot front caliper/bracket, "big disc carrier" to take 22V caliper on the rear (Mk3 calipers are too thin for the rotors).

Phase 2 will be:
- WMS rear 2-pot calipers, with some kind of handbrake.
- Alloy bells and 300mm rotors compatible with the Mk2 kits, front and rear.

Monkeyra

25-11-2009, 21:24

Something that has popped into my head, the Mk2 brakes, would they fit in a 16" wheel?

keri-WMS

25-11-2009, 21:51

Something that has popped into my head, the Mk2 brakes, would they fit in a 16" wheel?
Should do, 280mm in a 15" (works most of the time) is about the same as 305mm in a 16" ...depending on the shape of the inside of the wheel as always.

Monkeyra

27-11-2009, 17:54

keri-WMS

28-11-2009, 11:38

Another question :)

Will these be lighter than the OEM calipers? Would be nice to reduce unsprung weight whilst also upgrading in size.

Has anyone here got any comparisons of how they compare against a set of Rev5 brakes with Carbotec pads (which tbh do offer pretty stonking performance).

Well the front will be - the caliper, 300mm disc (probably) and 300mm rotor/bell will be lighter.

The rear will re-use the OEM calipers, and the bigger carriers to get to 300mm will be a bit heavier but not much.

I agree that Carbotech pads are brilliant (from speaking to people who have used them), but given that they are available to FIT the WMS calipers that gives you the best of both worlds! :banana:

Carbotech stuff isn't cheap by the way, EBC Reds/Yellows are the best value by far for most people.

Jim-SR

28-11-2009, 11:39

cant speak for the mk2 setup. but on a mk1 the complete front setup (calipers, pads, mounting brackets and hardware, discs, and bells) weigh in at about 11kg, whilst also increasing disc diameter by 22mm. the stock setup weighs in at almost 11kg PER SIDE, so youre almost halving the unsprung weight. its a huge saving, but only if you run bells. if you run solid discs then youll still save on weight, but by much less. discs and bells weigh approx 5.3kg each in 280mm form, the equivalent solid discs weigh 7kg each.

edit: Keri replied seconds before i did, DOH lol. they are lightweight either way, but the bell setup is SUPER lightweight :D possibly the lightest direct fitment AW11 kit on the market?!